AGC: North Africa & Barbary Coast

Mad King James · 09-11-2002, 01:08

I've been meaning to get around to this area for ages and ages

heh heh

One thing that is really clear on maps of 1419 is Kabylia should definitely belong to Tunisia in 1419. Almost the entire province, and all the major cities, are inside Tunisian territory at the time according to the maps I've seen.

The Hafsids were also definitely the biggest kingdom in North Africa west of Egypt, and the Tunisian Hafsids were Berbers! I think Tunisia should be Berber/Arabic...

Algiers needs a severe fleet cut, down to 1/3 its current size, their current navy is insane! Not only that, but Algiers needs to be severely threatened by the Spanish and request the aid of the Ottomans.

I think the Ottomans should get CB's on north africa all the way to the border with Morocco when they inherit Algiers

Gen. Wolfe · 10-11-2002, 02:51

Algiers definitely wasn't very big in 1419 (why was it called Kdm. of Tlemsen?), I think that every province west of Tunisia in N. Africa should be Berber and those countries should definitely get Berber culture.

Gen. Wolfe · 10-11-2002, 03:19

I went and got a few maps of mine, here is a list of dates of Ottoman conquests in North Africa:

*-city or minor area

-Egypt (1517)
-Cyrenaica (1521)
-Tripoli (1551)
-Jerba* (1560)
-Tunisia (1574)
-Algeria (1519)
-Tlemcen* (1555)

Gen. Wolfe · 20-11-2002, 05:03

Maybe also make sure that the Moors form Al-Andalus go mostly to the coastal provinces and not some stupid place like Aures (one time I saw all of Algiers immigrants go there voila a 16000 pop Constantine).

chegitz guevara · 21-11-2002, 07:47

Algeria was later than 1519. It occured on Suleyman's watch, 1524, IIRC, when Barbarossa seized Algeirs.

BTW, Spain should get CBs from Oran all the way to Tripoli on the costal procinves. When the Knights moved to Malta, they seized both Tunis and Tripoli. That needs to be reflected.

Early Algeria was known as Tlemcen, (in as much as it was known as anything in this period - at least according to the mongo thread in the EEP forum). Move the capital to Atlas to begin with. When Barbarossa seizes Algiers, you can move the capital there.

Gen. Wolfe · 23-11-2002, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Algeria was later than 1519. It occured on Suleyman's watch, 1524, IIRC, when Barbarossa seized Algeirs.

Well, that's just what it says on my map.

Gen. Wolfe · 24-11-2002, 20:03

Here is some info on Algiers. An interesting note is that in 1671 the deys of Algiers became independant of the Ottomans, if this isn't modelled yet perhaps it should be.

Here is some info on Tunisia. Basically during the last years of the Hafsid dynasty the Spanish captured several key coastal cities including Tunis itself. The cities only came back under Muslim rule when the Ottomans entered the region. But the Ottomans did not directly rule the country, instead it was ruled by the Hussein beys (probably equivalent to vassalization).

chegitz guevara · 25-11-2002, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen. Wolfe
Here is some info on Algiers. An interesting note is that in 1671 the deys of Algiers became independant of the Ottomans, if this isn't modelled yet perhaps it should be.

I've got some events in the Ottoman EEP thread that model this if you'd like them. It portrays the rise and collapse of Ottoman authority in Algeria.

Gen. Wolfe · 25-11-2002, 23:10

Have you submitted them to the AGC?

The Phoenix · 28-11-2002, 11:27

Some observations from a map over African trade goods:
* Louaga should perhaps have salt instead of ivory
* Nouadibuh should produce salt
* Buré should perhaps produce slaves instead of gold
* Casamance, Guinea or Segu should produce gold (the marker is exactly where the three provinces meet, although it is less in Guinean territory than in the other two; Segu should probably get it to make it an inland good
* Zaria should produce ivory (but I dunno if Begho should; I favour a switch)
* Oye or Accra should produce ivory (Oye preferably, since it is inland)

Gen. Wolfe · 28-11-2002, 23:20

Shouldn't most of these go in AGC: Africa 2?

chegitz guevara · 02-12-2002, 23:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen. Wolfe
Have you submitted them to the AGC?

I ain't submitted nothing yet.

09-11-2002, 01:08	#1
Mad King James Modding Anti-Christ Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 6,623	AGC: North Africa & Barbary Coast I've been meaning to get around to this area for ages and ages heh heh One thing that is really clear on maps of 1419 is Kabylia should definitely belong to Tunisia in 1419. Almost the entire province, and all the major cities, are inside Tunisian territory at the time according to the maps I've seen. The Hafsids were also definitely the biggest kingdom in North Africa west of Egypt, and the Tunisian Hafsids were Berbers! I think Tunisia should be Berber/Arabic... Algiers needs a severe fleet cut, down to 1/3 its current size, their current navy is insane! Not only that, but Algiers needs to be severely threatened by the Spanish and request the aid of the Ottomans. I think the Ottomans should get CB's on north africa all the way to the border with Morocco when they inherit Algiers __________________ No good deed goes unpunished.

10-11-2002, 02:51	#2
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	Algiers definitely wasn't very big in 1419 (why was it called Kdm. of Tlemsen?), I think that every province west of Tunisia in N. Africa should be Berber and those countries should definitely get Berber culture. __________________ 15 Kain Points!

10-11-2002, 03:19	#3
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	I went and got a few maps of mine, here is a list of dates of Ottoman conquests in North Africa: -city or minor area -Egypt (1517) -Cyrenaica (1521) -Tripoli (1551) -Jerba (1560) -Tunisia (1574) -Algeria (1519) -Tlemcen* (1555) __________________ 15 Kain Points! Last edited by Gen. Wolfe; 10-11-2002 at 03:25.

20-11-2002, 05:03	#4
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	Maybe also make sure that the Moors form Al-Andalus go mostly to the coastal provinces and not some stupid place like Aures (one time I saw all of Algiers immigrants go there voila a 16000 pop Constantine). __________________ 15 Kain Points!

21-11-2002, 07:47	#5
chegitz guevara Lord of the Horizons Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton Posts: 2,793	Algeria was later than 1519. It occured on Suleyman's watch, 1524, IIRC, when Barbarossa seized Algeirs. BTW, Spain should get CBs from Oran all the way to Tripoli on the costal procinves. When the Knights moved to Malta, they seized both Tunis and Tripoli. That needs to be reflected. Early Algeria was known as Tlemcen, (in as much as it was known as anything in this period - at least according to the mongo thread in the EEP forum). Move the capital to Atlas to begin with. When Barbarossa seizes Algiers, you can move the capital there. __________________ Ottoman proposal thread, 1419-1520 Ottoman EEP thread Just for ideas. Anatolian Turkish Minors The Safavids We got the neutron, gonna drop it all over the place. Yer gonna get it on yer face - The Weirdos Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole, not like you. - The Modern Lovers

24-11-2002, 20:03	#7
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	Here is some info on Algiers. An interesting note is that in 1671 the deys of Algiers became independant of the Ottomans, if this isn't modelled yet perhaps it should be. Here is some info on Tunisia. Basically during the last years of the Hafsid dynasty the Spanish captured several key coastal cities including Tunis itself. The cities only came back under Muslim rule when the Ottomans entered the region. But the Ottomans did not directly rule the country, instead it was ruled by the Hussein beys (probably equivalent to vassalization). __________________ 15 Kain Points!

25-11-2002, 23:10	#9
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	Have you submitted them to the AGC? __________________ 15 Kain Points!

28-11-2002, 11:27	#10
The Phoenix Banned alive as a sacrifice Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,639	Some observations from a map over African trade goods: * Louaga should perhaps have salt instead of ivory * Nouadibuh should produce salt * Buré should perhaps produce slaves instead of gold * Casamance, Guinea or Segu should produce gold (the marker is exactly where the three provinces meet, although it is less in Guinean territory than in the other two; Segu should probably get it to make it an inland good * Zaria should produce ivory (but I dunno if Begho should; I favour a switch) * Oye or Accra should produce ivory (Oye preferably, since it is inland)

28-11-2002, 23:20	#11
Gen. Wolfe General Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 2,482	Shouldn't most of these go in AGC: Africa 2? __________________ 15 Kain Points!