AGC: Iberia

[nelly644]

Originally posted by mfigueras
NOTE: the events have been submitted to (and included in) the EEP, as well. I see no reason in the confrontation AGC/EEP; I post in both projects in order everybody could use the events at will.

I wish everybody else could see that too

[Mad King James]

Originally posted by mfigueras
I've completed a set of events for Aragon. They were posted initially in the general scenario & events forum (here), but this is a not-updated version. The last version (and corrected) is here:

Events for Aragon.

If you prefer I'll post all the events here. Feel free to make comments and suggest improvements.

NOTE: the events have been submitted to (and included in) the EEP, as well. I see no reason in the confrontation AGC/EEP; I post in both projects in order everybody could use the events at will.

You should reserve yourself an ID range at the ID bank from Onslaught
Once that's done send me the file and I'll put it in the next beta

[mfigueras]

Originally posted by Mad King James


You should reserve yourself an ID range at the ID bank from Onslaught
Once that's done send me the file and I'll put it in the next beta

OK, thanks, MKJ. I'll send you the events as soon as possible (and once I had get the IDs and changed them in the file).

[vilkouak]

I like these events but have one question: have you got any experience how events concerning cessing and recessing Rousillion works in the game?

[Mad King James]

didn't they go to war over it? Could be wrong...

[mfigueras]

Originally posted by vilkouak
I like these events but have one question: have you got any experience how events concerning cessing and recessing Rousillion works in the game?

I've tested them and they work as intended. The only problem could be the temporal Casus Belli Aragon has over France in the case France doesn't want to return Roussillon to Aragon, which could lead to a war ARG-FRA, but I don't see that problematic, it would be a "logical" consequence if France doesn't return Roussillon.

[mfigueras]

Originally posted by Mad King James
didn't they go to war over it? Could be wrong...

There had been various conflicts for the control of Roussillon. In this case it was more an armed conflict than a proper war. The cession of Roussillon was accorded with a "neutrality" status for Roussillon (political control for France, but without military presence). The french king, however, garrisoned troops in the zone, but Aragon, in the middle of the civil war, did nothing. The treaty of Barcelona in 1493, which returned Roussillon to Aragon, was a very good diplomatic treaty both for France and Aragon. However, few years later, the french besieged the castle of Salses, just in the frontier between Roussillon and France, which led to another brief armed conflict.

[Crook]

NOTE: the events have been submitted to (and included in) the EEP, as well. I see no reason in the confrontation AGC/EEP; I post in both projects in order everybody could use the events at will.

I don't see it too, but I don't want to see an EEP clone as well, which will likely happen if we start borrowing events from each other. Shouldn't the whole thing be resolved through a configuartor?

[mfigueras]

Originally posted by Crook
I don't see it too, but I don't want to see an EEP clone as well, which will likely happen if we start borrowing events from each other. Shouldn't the whole thing be resolved through a configuartor?

Yes, IMHO, it would be the best option. And I agree that a lot of events will be the same or nearly the same in both projects, at least for historical events they can't be very different: I can't imagine two completely different sets of historical events ¿¿??

I (and I think, the majority of "event-makers", as well) have created the events with a clear aim: improving the gaming experience and make these events public in the forum so whoever liked them could add the events to his game. Now, for some reasons (whatever they be), two apparently identical collecting-events projects have arisen, so what? I think that our aim should be the player, and the majority of players, not aware of this confrontation, won't care the reasons behind the projects, they'll simply get the project they liked the most, or more possibly both. So, if we want to satisfy, as much as possible, the gaming experience of the EU2 players, I think that each project should have the best set of events according to their respective phliosophies.

[Mad King James]

Hmm have you read my events for Spain? I think all the contributers should read the event philosophy for the AGC. Don't get me wrong the events are fine, but the triggers are only dates, they'll fire if the country in question doesn't exist, or even if they countries in question are enemies...

Take a quick look at my pre-spain events, and you'll see what I mean.

[Mad King James]

Originally posted by Crook


I don't see it too, but I don't want to see an EEP clone as well, which will likely happen if we start borrowing events from each other. Shouldn't the whole thing be resolved through a configuartor?

Oh and why wouldn't the EEP turn into an AGC clone?

[Iostephanos]

i'm confused about the proposed aragon ai (which is by the way a great idea; i'm in favor of as many ai's as my computer's memory can handle) -

i'm vague on the "conquer byz" part - i can see the catalan company wanting to do so, especially after they thought the emperor went back on his agreement, and they did indeed take athens, but i don't see aragon wanting to go to war with constantinople.

p.s. just starting reading athens under the catalans; i wonder if my opinion wil change... ?

steph

[Crook]

Originally posted by Mad King James


Oh and why wouldn't the EEP turn into an AGC clone?

Can't make a clone of smth that came out first

[Fate]

The Aragonese kings did have a dream of creating a Mediterranean empire, but I don't believe the AI should be encouraged to be involved in Greece. Although, I do believe Genoa, Naples, and perhaps Provence should be added to Aragon's "to conquer" list.

[Iostephanos]

Originally posted by Fate
The Aragonese kings did have a dream of creating a Mediterranean empire, but I don't believe the AI should be encouraged to be involved in Greece. Although, I do believe Genoa, Naples, and perhaps Provence should be added to Aragon's "to conquer" list.

especially naples - i mean if the angevin-aragonese conflict is still going on at the start of the grand campaign, that is.

paraphrased from my atlas of the crusades: the catalan company had slaughtered the duke of athens and agreed to accept the suzerainty of the kings of aragon. this turned greece into another theatre of the aragon-anjou conflict that was going on in southern italy.

i tend to agree with fate, here. aragon did want (and get) a mediterranean empire, but she didn't take an active role in the balkans. (technically until they accepted vassalage under aragon, the catalan company were working for the byzantine emperor.) don't forget that aragon made no attempt to get the duchy of athens back after the acciajuoli were officially invested (that i know of right now - i'm still reading athens under the catalans.)

steph

[tuna]

I find the involvement of Catalan mercenaries in Turco-Byzantine relations quite fascinating, unfortunately the sources are scare at best. The most notable of "Catalan invasions" was in 1303-1304 if I recall correctly, when Emperor Andranikos II sent a strong force of Catalans on a campaign against Karasi Bey (founder of Karasiogullari, a beylik in Northwestern Asia Minor) They fought remarkably well and managed to drive back Karasi forces, relieving Kyzikos (Erdek) Edremit, Biga and Bergama.

[Iostephanos]

Originally posted by tuna
I find the involvement of Catalan mercenaries in Turco-Byzantine relations quite fascinating, unfortunately the sources are scare at best. The most notable of "Catalan invasions" was in 1303-1304 if I recall correctly, when Emperor Andranikos II sent a strong force of Catalans on a campaign against Karasi Bey (founder of Karasiogullari, a beylik in Northwestern Asia Minor) They fought remarkably well and managed to drive back Karasi forces, relieving Kyzikos (Erdek) Edremit, Biga and Bergama.

pesky little buggers, weren't they?

i wish we had some more documentation, too. there is no trace of their passing in athens - despite that they were rumoured even to have a university.

from what little i do know, their role against the turks overall was minor - the atlas of the crusades traces their route as going counter-clockwise from asia minor, up into thrace, down into thessaly, and then fatefully athens.

[Txini]

The Kings of Aragon and now the ones of Spain have the title Duke of Athens, in my opinion Aragon didn't recover the duchy but neither accepted the new dukes.

[tuna]

Originally posted by stephanos

from what little i do know, their role against the turks overall was minor - the atlas of the crusades traces their route as going counter-clockwise from asia minor, up into thrace, down into thessaly, and then fatefully athens.

Sounds about right, according to this article I have on Karasiogullari, Catalan forces crossed the Dardanelles and briefly settled in Gallipoli-Lapseki sometime around 1305. No reason is given (perhaps mission accomplished? )

[Iostephanos]

Originally posted by tuna


Sounds about right, according to this article I have on Karasiogullari, Catalan forces crossed the Dardanelles and briefly settled in Gallipoli-Lapseki sometime around 1305. No reason is given (perhaps mission accomplished? )

my curiosity got the better of me, so i dug out the norwich; here's the synopsis:

(hey tuna, you forgot to mention that this was all precipitated by the military victory of this relative nobody named "othman/otto" )

1302 - first appearance on the world stage of othman, a leader of one of the smallest ghazi emirates, who hands the byzantines a heavy defeat

1302 - andronicus receives word that roger de la flor is interested in helping him out for nine months - in return for the emperor agreeing to make roger a megas dux (fifth in line) and giving his niece's hand in marriage

1303 - the victories you spoke of - turks in retreat; however the catalan company is described as arrogant, greedy (they kept any plunder for themselves), and they took no directions from anyone

1304 (+) - apparently roger's ego gets the better of him and he has ambitions of creating his own little kingdom; he sets out again in asia minor and starts to besiege magnesia... he gets an urgent call from the emperor that bulgarians are pressing the capital and that only with roger's help can he turn them back. once roger gets to gallipoli however, he receives word that his services aren't necessary. (hmm... suspicious) apparently andronicus was somehow "made" to realize that recalling the company wasn't a cool thing to do. roger is promoted to caesar, mostly to ease his temper - the company hasn't been paid its wages, and the emperor finally agrees to let roger hold (the whole of) anatolia in fief.

1305 (+) - as roger's company sets off to asia, he and a small escort head off to see his wife; at a banquet in his honor, he and his men are murdered (hmm... suspicious)

from then on - the company that crossed over immediately turns back to seek revenge; they smash the byzantine army and leave an endless trail of burnt villages and such (even pillaging mount athos) before taking service with the duke of athens...

what people bring upon themselves the only army able to defeat the turks is antagonized and murdered, the survivors deal the byzantines another mortal wound more serious than that given by osman, and the poor duke of athens...

steph