Japan vs China, your strategies?

kshatriya · 18-01-2010, 18:08

Hello.

What long-term strategies do you use when fighting ComChi and NatChi?

Does building lots of armor work?

son of liberty · 18-01-2010, 19:12

Armor as Japan is a bad idea. I sometimes build 3 with engineers, but they are not necessary. I mainly do it to get Japans 1 panzer leader experienced for later wars like India for example. I like cav III with art or ac. Mtn with or with out eng brigades are very useful. Use them to assault beaches and open extra fronts. Use your garrison divs to hold the rear and keep partisans low. Shore bombardment wherever possible. Put each airwing under a separate leader to gain exp. Even use your navs for ground support missions. They have great range, and the commander will gain good exp for later.

kshatriya · 18-01-2010, 19:48

I agree that armor isn't very good for later south-east asian conquest, due to the terrain. But wouldn't it work pretty well against National China at least?

Do you guys Blitz economical areas or fight a front war?

PanzerMan7 · 18-01-2010, 19:58

80 divisions through manchuria and 60 land in the south. maybe wutever u have left lands near shanghai. 1 year win.

kshatriya · 18-01-2010, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerMan7

80 divisions through manchuria and 60 land in the south. maybe wutever u have left lands near shanghai. 1 year win.

While simply overpowering is a valid strategy, I am more interested in those that work in some other way and have more finesse, for those times when one hasn't built 140 divisions.

Would you guys recommend blitzing their economical provinces for example? And so on.
I have conquered China the overpower-way before, I'm just creating this thread to hear about other ways to beat them.

Fall Gelb · 18-01-2010, 22:12

I use to attack from both land and sea. A smaller force in the north and an amphibious landing in Shanghai. Then transport your army from Japan and take the coastline and then head towards their areas with IC. I use only inf, mtn and tac bombers for China.

Sir Galahad · 18-01-2010, 23:05

I kinda just do it as it seems logical as it goes. The main invasion is from the north naturally, and that one usually goes pretty smoothly until Japanese armies reach the mountains further west and south.

In the meantime I put newly formed divisions into a second front - a landing in Shanghai. The Chinese seems to draw forces away from the coast when they are put under pressure inland, so an invasion at this time is quite easy. I quickly grab the main cities around Shanghai and push inland. Usually I can create pockets north of Shanghai and eventually link up with the main invasion force.

When even more troops are constructed, I open a third front with landings near French Indochina down south. Now the Chinese are under heavy pressure and I can piece by piece take provinces away from them.

In my experience, bombing their industry at this point is very effective and will cause collapse, as they have lots of divisions with very little industry left to support them. The rest is mopping up basically.

Takes around a year or so.
Com China was neutral in my latest game, so I kept them around until the war was won. Then I honorably DOW:d them, to give them freedom.

PanzerMan7 · 18-01-2010, 23:19

u could try a 3 pronged 30 division assault. that would be economical. mountaineers too. perhaps smash through their main line with infantry. land infantry in the east. and mountaineers in the south. but 33% mountaineers would be expensive. paratroopers maybe, but for a self sufficent drop u need about 18 paras. which means 6 transports minimum

tannhauser.hero · 19-01-2010, 05:00

I usually try to inveigle a situation where the Japanese can take on the Guangxi Clique one on one. From there, a two-pronged invasion of China usually sees the Nationalist Chinese having insufficient troops to cover both borders effectively.

Armor has its uses when fighting against Shaanxi and rumbling down to attack the heartland, but isn't quite so useful when you have to attack the mountainous regions in the south to southwest and in the western part of Shaanxi. However, you don't really need armor divisions as Japan and I don't really use them unless I find myself thinking about taking on the Soviets.

tinasõdur · 19-01-2010, 09:25

I usually hate building a lot of infantry as Japan, so instead I prefer to surround their capital and let them starve to death. I know it's gamey, but invasion of China is never really an important part of my Japan game.

And one more thing: You may consider listening to their demands in 226 event and then declaring war on China as soon as your troops are at the border. of course you have less troops, but Chinese can benefit from the waiting way more than you. In 1936 China has only 1918 Infantry technology and no doctrines.

Edit: Paras are way too expensive for Japan, atleast at this stage of the game. But Sir Galahad's strategy is efficient, I have used the same strategy on multiple occasions.

kshatriya · 19-01-2010, 11:03

Thanks for your inputs!
I feel I have to try some of these strategies.

I don't know if surrounding capital is too gamey, it kind of makes sense that the politicians and commander-in-chief wouldn't be able to escape to another province or command their country efficiently, thus weakening the armed forces.

gilp · 19-01-2010, 18:43

Easiest thing to is to either research CAS and build 8 units (2 series times 4) of them or build Tac II (also two series) so that you'll have 24 Tacs t the very end. With the air units, you can just bomb the chinese via ground attack into oblivion, they will never have a chance and you save on supplies for extra troops etc..

Pioniere · 19-01-2010, 19:38

This guy use mainly infantry when attaching China with Japan.

Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday Armageddon Japan VS China Commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDN3vAV-MA

kshatriya · 19-01-2010, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilp

Easiest thing to is to either research CAS and build 8 units (2 series times 4) of them or build Tac II (also two series) so that you'll have 24 Tacs t the very end. With the air units, you can just bomb the chinese via ground attack into oblivion, they will never have a chance and you save on supplies for extra troops etc..

Are TAC's that effective in the SinoJapanese war?
I mean, their soft attack is pretty low compared to infantry, and they cost much more than infantry to build.

gilp · 19-01-2010, 23:12

You cannot compare TACs with infantry!
They work very differently. The inf is there to make the Chines infantry move, the Tacs are there to decimate them with ground attack and eventually destroy them. This can only be done with inf if you'll encricle Chinese troops which is not that easy. Otherwise you will move a bigger getting stack of infantry in front of your troops which will be overwehlming sooner or later. The advantage of only using aircrafts is that you don't have to build new infantry (and also not upgrade your existing infantry) which won't be of much use later anyway and can build more mountaineers/ marines which will come in handy when it comes to conquer India or do islandhopping.

son of liberty · 20-01-2010, 01:34

Actually the new inf is useful. Give it too your Chinese puppet so they have some very experienced divisions. You also get your manpower back.

kshatriya · 20-01-2010, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilp

The advantage of only using aircrafts is that you don't have to build new infantry (and also not upgrade your existing infantry) which won't be of much use later anyway and can build more mountaineers/ marines which will come in handy when it comes to conquer India or do islandhopping.

So I should only have aircraft, and just a smaller ground force?

I forgot anyway that the infantry needs to rest between harder battles, while TAC's can just keep on bombing. That's a big advantage too.

son of liberty · 20-01-2010, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshatriya

So I should only have aircraft, and just a smaller ground force?

I forgot anyway that the infantry needs to rest between harder battles, while TAC's can just keep on bombing. That's a big advantage too.

A mid size force with good air support is a great way to go. Keep a serial of airfields going though.

sam73 · 20-01-2010, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshatriya

Thanks for your inputs!
I feel I have to try some of these strategies.

I don't know if surrounding capital is too gamey, it kind of makes sense that the politicians and commander-in-chief wouldn't be able to escape to another province or command their country efficiently, thus weakening the armed forces.

The gameyness comes from the fact that the game engine works as if all the supplies to all the armed forces are generated in your capital city, which is not very realistic.

It has nothing to do with government and higher HQs not being able to escape, which in the game, they can easily do. Together with thousands of tonnes of supplies and raw materials that can be teleported to a new capital in a nanosecond.

Sir Galahad · 20-01-2010, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by sam73

The gameyness comes from the fact that the game engine works as if all the supplies to all the armed forces are generated in your capital city, which is not very realistic.

It has nothing to do with government and higher HQs not being able to escape, which in the game, they can easily do. Together with thousands of tonnes of supplies and raw materials that can be teleported to a new capital in a nanosecond.

Well said!

18-01-2010, 18:08	#1
kshatriya Sergeant Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 80	Japan vs China, your strategies? Hello. What long-term strategies do you use when fighting ComChi and NatChi? Does building lots of armor work? Last edited by kshatriya; 18-01-2010 at 20:58.

18-01-2010, 19:12	#2
son of liberty They Stole My Avatar Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,782	Armor as Japan is a bad idea. I sometimes build 3 with engineers, but they are not necessary. I mainly do it to get Japans 1 panzer leader experienced for later wars like India for example. I like cav III with art or ac. Mtn with or with out eng brigades are very useful. Use them to assault beaches and open extra fronts. Use your garrison divs to hold the rear and keep partisans low. Shore bombardment wherever possible. Put each airwing under a separate leader to gain exp. Even use your navs for ground support missions. They have great range, and the commander will gain good exp for later. __________________ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." There is a new game in the works... http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...6#post11539036 "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

18-01-2010, 19:48	#3
kshatriya Sergeant Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 80	I agree that armor isn't very good for later south-east asian conquest, due to the terrain. But wouldn't it work pretty well against National China at least? Do you guys Blitz economical areas or fight a front war? Last edited by kshatriya; 18-01-2010 at 20:15.

18-01-2010, 19:58	#4
PanzerMan7 Colonel Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,066	80 divisions through manchuria and 60 land in the south. maybe wutever u have left lands near shanghai. 1 year win. __________________ I wish I was Japanese or at least Asian. America sux. mod 34 mini guide "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57 I like the F word, also known as F***. Its very fun to say. My girlfriend is supremely awesome. ♥♥♥♥

18-01-2010, 23:19	#8
PanzerMan7 Colonel Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,066	u could try a 3 pronged 30 division assault. that would be economical. mountaineers too. perhaps smash through their main line with infantry. land infantry in the east. and mountaineers in the south. but 33% mountaineers would be expensive. paratroopers maybe, but for a self sufficent drop u need about 18 paras. which means 6 transports minimum __________________ I wish I was Japanese or at least Asian. America sux. mod 34 mini guide "If it's an exploit for para's then it's an exploit for EVERY unit in the game and therefore the game itself is an exploit." -jju_57 I like the F word, also known as F***. Its very fun to say. My girlfriend is supremely awesome. ♥♥♥♥

18-01-2010, 22:12	#6
Fall Gelb Corporal Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 28	I use to attack from both land and sea. A smaller force in the north and an amphibious landing in Shanghai. Then transport your army from Japan and take the coastline and then head towards their areas with IC. I use only inf, mtn and tac bombers for China.

18-01-2010, 23:05	#7
Sir Galahad Colonel Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,093	I kinda just do it as it seems logical as it goes. The main invasion is from the north naturally, and that one usually goes pretty smoothly until Japanese armies reach the mountains further west and south. In the meantime I put newly formed divisions into a second front - a landing in Shanghai. The Chinese seems to draw forces away from the coast when they are put under pressure inland, so an invasion at this time is quite easy. I quickly grab the main cities around Shanghai and push inland. Usually I can create pockets north of Shanghai and eventually link up with the main invasion force. When even more troops are constructed, I open a third front with landings near French Indochina down south. Now the Chinese are under heavy pressure and I can piece by piece take provinces away from them. In my experience, bombing their industry at this point is very effective and will cause collapse, as they have lots of divisions with very little industry left to support them. The rest is mopping up basically. Takes around a year or so. Com China was neutral in my latest game, so I kept them around until the war was won. Then I honorably DOW:d them, to give them freedom.

19-01-2010, 05:00	#9
tannhauser.hero Recruit Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8	I usually try to inveigle a situation where the Japanese can take on the Guangxi Clique one on one. From there, a two-pronged invasion of China usually sees the Nationalist Chinese having insufficient troops to cover both borders effectively. Armor has its uses when fighting against Shaanxi and rumbling down to attack the heartland, but isn't quite so useful when you have to attack the mountainous regions in the south to southwest and in the western part of Shaanxi. However, you don't really need armor divisions as Japan and I don't really use them unless I find myself thinking about taking on the Soviets.

19-01-2010, 09:25	#10
tinasõdur Second Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Estonia Posts: 121	I usually hate building a lot of infantry as Japan, so instead I prefer to surround their capital and let them starve to death. I know it's gamey, but invasion of China is never really an important part of my Japan game. And one more thing: You may consider listening to their demands in 226 event and then declaring war on China as soon as your troops are at the border. of course you have less troops, but Chinese can benefit from the waiting way more than you. In 1936 China has only 1918 Infantry technology and no doctrines. Edit: Paras are way too expensive for Japan, atleast at this stage of the game. But Sir Galahad's strategy is efficient, I have used the same strategy on multiple occasions.

19-01-2010, 11:03	#11
kshatriya Sergeant Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 80	Thanks for your inputs! I feel I have to try some of these strategies. I don't know if surrounding capital is too gamey, it kind of makes sense that the politicians and commander-in-chief wouldn't be able to escape to another province or command their country efficiently, thus weakening the armed forces. Last edited by kshatriya; 19-01-2010 at 12:30.

19-01-2010, 18:43	#12
gilp Private Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 24	Easiest thing to is to either research CAS and build 8 units (2 series times 4) of them or build Tac II (also two series) so that you'll have 24 Tacs t the very end. With the air units, you can just bomb the chinese via ground attack into oblivion, they will never have a chance and you save on supplies for extra troops etc..

19-01-2010, 19:38	#13
Pioniere General Join Date: May 2006 Location: Near Oslo Posts: 1,914	Japan VS China This guy use mainly infantry when attaching China with Japan. Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday Armageddon Japan VS China Commentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDN3vAV-MA __________________ Firmly loaded with Saxon/Aztec fighting spirit! "I will find a way, or I will make one" Hannibal! And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. Henry the V the hoi2 vampire http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2497/testct.png

19-01-2010, 23:12	#15
gilp Private Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 24	You cannot compare TACs with infantry! They work very differently. The inf is there to make the Chines infantry move, the Tacs are there to decimate them with ground attack and eventually destroy them. This can only be done with inf if you'll encricle Chinese troops which is not that easy. Otherwise you will move a bigger getting stack of infantry in front of your troops which will be overwehlming sooner or later. The advantage of only using aircrafts is that you don't have to build new infantry (and also not upgrade your existing infantry) which won't be of much use later anyway and can build more mountaineers/ marines which will come in handy when it comes to conquer India or do islandhopping.

20-01-2010, 01:34	#16
son of liberty They Stole My Avatar Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,782	Actually the new inf is useful. Give it too your Chinese puppet so they have some very experienced divisions. You also get your manpower back. __________________ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." There is a new game in the works... http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...6#post11539036 "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."