BarristerBoy! --- Canada Mod

Baron Jukaga · 24-03-2002, 03:29

I'm loving your Canada mod, but there are a few problems with it. It appears that Canada doesn't have a whiteman rating (can't build ships, cavalry) and the lack of French culture as a national culture.
I've noticed also that Canada starts as Reformed, and can turn protestant. Why not catholic as well? Statistically, catholicism is still the most practiced religion in Canada. Any chance of a War of 1812 event?

Kudos on a job well done, despite my apparent griping.

dannysmurf · 24-03-2002, 08:08

A war of 1812 event would be out of place in the Canada mod, since the War of 1812 was between Britain and the US. Canada wasn't a country then.

Baron Jukaga · 24-03-2002, 08:26

d'uh, I know that, but this game balances historicity and conjecture. A war between a 18th century-born Canada and the US in the area of 1812 is reasonable.

dannysmurf · 24-03-2002, 10:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Jukaga
d'uh, I know that, but this game balances historicity and conjecture. A war between a 18th century-born Canada and the US in the area of 1812 is reasonable.

A war between the two is not unreasonable. But simulating the war of 1812 between Canada-come-early and the US is.

That war happened for a lot of reasons, but the main point was that England refused to fully recognize the indepence of the United States, and some in the US were looking to take over Canada to get the British off the continent entirely and solve the problem that way.

Had Canada existed indepdently at the time, the war probably would not have happened, since the British would have had no presence on the continent, would not have had a reason to support the Indians fighting to stop American expansion, and would not have had any ships in the area to cause mayhem in the American shipping lanes.

In any case, this is moot. I checked, and there is already a War of 1812 event in the major_usa file.

BarristerBoy · 24-03-2002, 22:59

I've just checked out these boards and discovered the lack of a whiteman value. I'll fix that in my next release. Thanks for the information!

I'm not entirely convinced that Canada should have French culture. In its early days the government of Canada was very much dominated by English Canadians. But pretty much everyone else seems to think Canada should get French, so I'll add that as well.

As for religion - religion is currently not set in revolt.txt file for Canada. The religion currently gets set as Reformed because it picks up the same religion as the Capitol, which for some odd reason always goes to Isle Royale.

But you can switch to Catholic - you just need to switch to Protestant first, and then to Catholic. But for the same reasons as I mentioned above with respect to French culture, I don't think the religion of Canada should be set as Catholic.

As for 1812 events - I do think they'd be warranted. For one, my mod sets Canada up as a British vassal, so there's till quite a bit of British influence in North America. As well the regions of Rupertsland and Newfoundland are not core provinces of Canada in my mod, and will remain with Britain.

For another American territorial ambition played a large part in the war of 1812. That territorial ambition would exist whetehr or not Canada existed in 1812.

BarristerBoy

Baron Jukaga · 25-03-2002, 05:17

Kewl, glad to hear it, BB! I seem to remember the British were very accomodating to the French-Quebecers after Nouvelle France was destroyed at Abraham. The de-facto capital was in Quebec city no? I seem to remember an Oligarchy in place there in the late 18th - early 19th centuries that included French and English members.

Thanks again for inlcuding our great nation in this game, even though it "shouldn't" actually be here.

Crook · 25-03-2002, 05:28

Capital going to Isle Royale probably because your specified that province in revolt.txt as their capital. Same for religion.

Baron Jukaga · 25-03-2002, 05:54

I like Isle Royale being our capital. Louisbourg was quite an important place in it's day, in the 'alternate' Canada that's been made, why not have Louisbourg keep it's importance? With a hostile US to the south, having a well fortified island capital suits me just fine.

Sheridan · 25-03-2002, 07:10

Perhaps, on the religion issue, you should specify Protestant, so that anyone wishing to play it as either Catholic or Reformed only has to convert once.

BarristerBoy · 25-03-2002, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Crook
Capital going to Isle Royale probably because your specified that province in revolt.txt as their capital. Same for religion.

Have you looked at my revolt.txt file? I'm positive the capitol is set for Ottawa province. And I know that there is no religion default set.

Barrister(too busy this sweekend - hopefully I'll fix it tonight)Boy

viper37 · 25-03-2002, 19:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Jukaga
Kewl, glad to hear it, BB! I seem to remember the British were very accomodating to the French-Quebecers after Nouvelle France was destroyed at Abraham. The de-facto capital was in Quebec city no? I seem to remember an Oligarchy in place there in the late 18th - early 19th centuries that included French and English members.

Thanks again for inlcuding our great nation in this game, even though it "shouldn't" actually be here.

In theory, the French language and the Catholic religion were forbidden until the Act of Quebec (1775 I think). In practice, the military governor made a pact with the clergy under wich religion and language would not be touch as long as the clergy hold us in check (preventing rebellion). Remember that they still had problems with Pontiac and some Canadian rebels at the time.

The de-facto Capital was in Quebec because there was no one else

Until the Loyalists exile from the US, Ontario was not even a dream and Nova Scotia was Halifax+Louisbourg and a bunch of fields and mountains. After the Loyalists came in mass (in Ontario, Nova Scotia and the Eastern Township), gov representation was equal until the English gained majority and asked for rep by pop (representation by population).

In essence, Canada was and still is a country of Anglo-Saxon culture and therefore should be represented as such in the scenario. And the official religion should be protestant (there was still tensions between English protestant colonists and French Catholics), only the provinces in Quebec (except Megantic) should be made of French culture and Catholic religion.

viper37 · 25-03-2002, 19:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Jukaga
I like Isle Royale being our capital. Louisbourg was quite an important place in it's day, in the 'alternate' Canada that's been made, why not have Louisbourg keep it's importance? With a hostile US to the south, having a well fortified island capital suits me just fine.

Louisbourg was dismanteld by the British after the conquest

The English used the stone to build the Halifax fortress.

Baron Jukaga · 25-03-2002, 22:12

Well, okay Viper, but seeing that this is alternate history, maybe BB can make a few allowances. Hehe, our big brother down south has designs on us in EU2, as much or more than the real world. Let me keep my island citadel!

BarristerBoy · 25-03-2002, 23:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Jukaga
Well, okay Viper, but seeing that this is alternate history, maybe BB can make a few allowances. Hehe, our big brother down south has designs on us in EU2, as much or more than the real world. Let me keep my island citadel!

I'm sorru Jukaga, but I've got to agree with Viper. Putting Canada's capitol on Cape Breton Island just doesn't make much sense. I just have to fix whatever it is that puts it there.

Ottawa, or Montreal are probably the most logical places for a 1791 Canada.

BarristerBoy

viper37 · 26-03-2002, 05:34

Quote:

Originally posted by BarristerBoy

I'm sorru Jukaga, but I've got to agree with Viper. Putting Canada's capitol on Cape Breton Island just doesn't make much sense. I just have to fix whatever it is that puts it there.

Ottawa, or Montreal are probably the most logical places for a 1791 Canada.

BarristerBoy

I'm not even sure Ottawa was founded in 1791... Afaik, the first capitol city of Canada was Montreal.

Baron Jukaga · 26-03-2002, 07:40

I can live with that. Quebec or Montreal would seem to be the most logical chioces. The Ottawa province only has one trading post in the Napoleon scenario... not much of a capital. hehehe

How does this game simulate the migration of euros to the new world in this time. Canada just simply doesn't produce enough colonists (mostly because of the innovative slew to it, me thinks) to expand westwards in any appreciable manner. I just find it hard to beleive that all of those trading posts level 1 would stay that way for 20 years without direct government involvement.

One other thing that got me thinking was sort of a 'louisiana purchase' event for Canada, where GB offers the sale of much of Ontario to the Canadian government for a reasonable sum.

Oh and one more, how about some scripted Conquistadores for Canada, simulating our voyageurs who explored much of this continent in the period. Hoping and waiting for a random conquistador just doesn't fly when you only have the 30 years or so in which to play Canada.

Gawd, BB, I hope I don't sound like a jerk here with all of my 'observations'... I'm just really into this mod. If I had any idea how to do one, I would offer my help in any way you needed to get this working.

Johnny Canuck · 26-03-2002, 08:29

Ottawa was founded in 1826 at the mouth of the Rideau Canal, then under construction. It was known as Bytown until 1854. During this time, I believe Kingston served as the capital of Upper Canada.

BarristerBoy · 26-03-2002, 08:55

Thanks for the support Jukaga.

I'm somewhat stalled however in dealing with the last problem identified - that Canada couldn't create ships or cavalry. The whiteman value appears to be the culprit, and I think I've identified a bug in the game in this regard (it also applies with Canada). Unless I can find a work around, or the bug is fixed, I'm not sure where to take this Mod.

As for your specific questions...

There should be some events dealing with loyalist migrations into Upper Canada. If the existing events don't do the trick then I should create some. Beyond that however I'm not entirely sure. Some of these areas just weren't heavily populated in the time period.

What I had wanted to do was also put in a "founding of Ottawa" event, which would add a few people to Ottawa province in order to make it a city, as well as set it as Canada's capitol. I've double-checked and right now it is set to establish Ottawa as Canada's capitol, but since Ottawa is only a trading post I guess that choice is invalid.

Montreal is probably a good choice for an interim capitol though.

Who needs a "louisiana purchase" event, when we have a perfect Canadian equivalent. In 1870 the Hudson's Bay Company sold Rupertsland to Canada, which also spurred the red River Rebellion. An event for this could be written, but again it's rather ahistorical.

And since Newfoundland and Labrador didn't enter confederation until 1949 there's no way I'm writing an event for these two...

As for conquistador's - all of the land should be discovered by this point. I was trying to do some research for the war of 1812 to add a leader or two, but I don't want to do that until I have that whiteman problem solved...

BarristerBoy

viper37 · 26-03-2002, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
And since Newfoundland and Labrador didn't enter confederation until 1949 there's no way I'm writing an event for these two...

As for conquistador's - all of the land should be discovered by this point. I was trying to do some research for the war of 1812 to add a leader or two, but I don't want to do that until I have that whiteman problem solved...

BarristerBoy

1) Labrador belonged to Quebec up until this time methinks... The transfer to Newfoundland (well, it's a theft

) was done in the 20th century for sure...

2) French explorers already had explored up to the rockies in the 17th-18th century. They had trading posts all along the way. It's a shame all of this is in PTI

Baron Jukaga · 26-03-2002, 20:52

Oh, I just asked for the conquistadores because everything west of Ontario in the scenario (hehe) is terra incognita. Due to the WM bug, I' haven't played beyond 1806 or so. Does the terra incognita get automatically discovered? Though ahistorical, my goal as Canada was to expand to the pacific ocean... Though by seeing some russian settlers heading to kitimat, I think I was beaten to the punch.

24-03-2002, 03:29	#1
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	BarristerBoy! --- Canada Mod I'm loving your Canada mod, but there are a few problems with it. It appears that Canada doesn't have a whiteman rating (can't build ships, cavalry) and the lack of French culture as a national culture. I've noticed also that Canada starts as Reformed, and can turn protestant. Why not catholic as well? Statistically, catholicism is still the most practiced religion in Canada. Any chance of a War of 1812 event? Kudos on a job well done, despite my apparent griping.

24-03-2002, 08:08	#2
dannysmurf First Lieutenant Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 205	A war of 1812 event would be out of place in the Canada mod, since the War of 1812 was between Britain and the US. Canada wasn't a country then. __________________ Danny Smurf The Smurfy Smurf! EU2 Event Editor http://members.shaw.ca/danny-smurf/euevents danny-smurf@shaw.ca

24-03-2002, 22:59	#5
BarristerBoy Barrister & Solicitor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: small town Alberta Posts: 4,651	I've just checked out these boards and discovered the lack of a whiteman value. I'll fix that in my next release. Thanks for the information! I'm not entirely convinced that Canada should have French culture. In its early days the government of Canada was very much dominated by English Canadians. But pretty much everyone else seems to think Canada should get French, so I'll add that as well. As for religion - religion is currently not set in revolt.txt file for Canada. The religion currently gets set as Reformed because it picks up the same religion as the Capitol, which for some odd reason always goes to Isle Royale. But you can switch to Catholic - you just need to switch to Protestant first, and then to Catholic. But for the same reasons as I mentioned above with respect to French culture, I don't think the religion of Canada should be set as Catholic. As for 1812 events - I do think they'd be warranted. For one, my mod sets Canada up as a British vassal, so there's till quite a bit of British influence in North America. As well the regions of Rupertsland and Newfoundland are not core provinces of Canada in my mod, and will remain with Britain. For another American territorial ambition played a large part in the war of 1812. That territorial ambition would exist whetehr or not Canada existed in 1812. BarristerBoy __________________ visit www.languish.org

25-03-2002, 07:10	#9
Sheridan Congressman from California Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Continental Congress Posts: 4,592	Perhaps, on the religion issue, you should specify Protestant, so that anyone wishing to play it as either Catholic or Reformed only has to convert once. __________________ Sunshine patriot - Southern California sunshine, that is... plays EU2, CK, and Rome, and occasionally dusts off HOI, HOI2 or Victoria Sheridan's EU2 France 1419 Strategy Guide (outdated but still useful in concept)

26-03-2002, 08:29	#17
Johnny Canuck Field Marshal Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,457	Ottawa was founded in 1826 at the mouth of the Rideau Canal, then under construction. It was known as Bytown until 1854. During this time, I believe Kingston served as the capital of Upper Canada. __________________ "So little done, so much to do." - Cecil Rhodes on the Day of his Death, 1902

24-03-2002, 08:26	#3
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	d'uh, I know that, but this game balances historicity and conjecture. A war between a 18th century-born Canada and the US in the area of 1812 is reasonable.

25-03-2002, 05:17	#6
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	Kewl, glad to hear it, BB! I seem to remember the British were very accomodating to the French-Quebecers after Nouvelle France was destroyed at Abraham. The de-facto capital was in Quebec city no? I seem to remember an Oligarchy in place there in the late 18th - early 19th centuries that included French and English members. Thanks again for inlcuding our great nation in this game, even though it "shouldn't" actually be here.

25-03-2002, 05:28	#7
Crook Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Red Wings country Posts: 3,428	Capital going to Isle Royale probably because your specified that province in revolt.txt as their capital. Same for religion.

25-03-2002, 05:54	#8
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	I like Isle Royale being our capital. Louisbourg was quite an important place in it's day, in the 'alternate' Canada that's been made, why not have Louisbourg keep it's importance? With a hostile US to the south, having a well fortified island capital suits me just fine.

25-03-2002, 22:12	#13
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	Well, okay Viper, but seeing that this is alternate history, maybe BB can make a few allowances. Hehe, our big brother down south has designs on us in EU2, as much or more than the real world. Let me keep my island citadel!

26-03-2002, 07:40	#16
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	I can live with that. Quebec or Montreal would seem to be the most logical chioces. The Ottawa province only has one trading post in the Napoleon scenario... not much of a capital. hehehe How does this game simulate the migration of euros to the new world in this time. Canada just simply doesn't produce enough colonists (mostly because of the innovative slew to it, me thinks) to expand westwards in any appreciable manner. I just find it hard to beleive that all of those trading posts level 1 would stay that way for 20 years without direct government involvement. One other thing that got me thinking was sort of a 'louisiana purchase' event for Canada, where GB offers the sale of much of Ontario to the Canadian government for a reasonable sum. Oh and one more, how about some scripted Conquistadores for Canada, simulating our voyageurs who explored much of this continent in the period. Hoping and waiting for a random conquistador just doesn't fly when you only have the 30 years or so in which to play Canada. Gawd, BB, I hope I don't sound like a jerk here with all of my 'observations'... I'm just really into this mod. If I had any idea how to do one, I would offer my help in any way you needed to get this working.

26-03-2002, 08:55	#18
BarristerBoy Barrister & Solicitor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: small town Alberta Posts: 4,651	Thanks for the support Jukaga. I'm somewhat stalled however in dealing with the last problem identified - that Canada couldn't create ships or cavalry. The whiteman value appears to be the culprit, and I think I've identified a bug in the game in this regard (it also applies with Canada). Unless I can find a work around, or the bug is fixed, I'm not sure where to take this Mod. As for your specific questions... There should be some events dealing with loyalist migrations into Upper Canada. If the existing events don't do the trick then I should create some. Beyond that however I'm not entirely sure. Some of these areas just weren't heavily populated in the time period. What I had wanted to do was also put in a "founding of Ottawa" event, which would add a few people to Ottawa province in order to make it a city, as well as set it as Canada's capitol. I've double-checked and right now it is set to establish Ottawa as Canada's capitol, but since Ottawa is only a trading post I guess that choice is invalid. Montreal is probably a good choice for an interim capitol though. Who needs a "louisiana purchase" event, when we have a perfect Canadian equivalent. In 1870 the Hudson's Bay Company sold Rupertsland to Canada, which also spurred the red River Rebellion. An event for this could be written, but again it's rather ahistorical. And since Newfoundland and Labrador didn't enter confederation until 1949 there's no way I'm writing an event for these two... As for conquistador's - all of the land should be discovered by this point. I was trying to do some research for the war of 1812 to add a leader or two, but I don't want to do that until I have that whiteman problem solved... BarristerBoy __________________ visit www.languish.org

26-03-2002, 20:52	#20
Baron Jukaga Colonel Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commonwealth of Cascadia Posts: 1,179	Oh, I just asked for the conquistadores because everything west of Ontario in the scenario (hehe) is terra incognita. Due to the WM bug, I' haven't played beyond 1806 or so. Does the terra incognita get automatically discovered? Though ahistorical, my goal as Canada was to expand to the pacific ocean... Though by seeing some russian settlers heading to kitimat, I think I was beaten to the punch.