Participation in Game Project?

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

That information also proves that you should divide Mutsu in couple of provinces.



Mutsu alone produces more 9% of all income in Japan. I think that would be too much for one daimyo especially when there was never a daimyo who controlled the entire Mutsu. Instead of that, there were a group of smaller daimyos who controlled parts of Mutsu.

Article of Mutsu in Wikipedia

Maybe you should name fiefs in Mutsu after cities in that province: Morioka, Sendai and Wakamatsu.

EDIT: Mutsu apparently consists of four modern day prefectures and Dewa of two; perhaps it would be logical to divide along these borders?
True. Wikipedia seems to have quite a compilation of information for all Japanese provinces by the way.

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

EDIT: Mutsu apparently consists of four modern day prefectures and Dewa of two; perhaps it would be logical to divide along these borders?
True. Wikipedia seems to have quite a compilation of information for all Japanese provinces by the way.

I think that is a good idea. I would also divide the amount of kokus in Dewa by 2 and in Mutsu by 4 unless we have better information how to divide kokus between these new provinces.

[Gratianus]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

Gratianius: Such data will undoubtly be useful. Keep 'em coming if you find more.

Extra provincial data form "Tenka-Touitsu2" by Systemsoft.

Scenario1 (1546)
1. Kokudaka*10000 koku (start value/max.value), 2. Mine (start value/max.value),
3. City prosperity (start value/max.value), 4. Moral of native soldiers
Touhoku district
Ezo 3/34, 5/20, 2/50, 90
Kita-Mutsu 13/68, 1/9, 1/50, 80
Minami-Mutsu 15/75, 1/5, 5/85, 80
Dewa 13/69, 1/4, 6/95, 80

Kantou district
Hitachi 15/76, 2/7, 9/120, 80
Kouzuke 21/53 0/2, 13/140, 80
Shimotsuke 10/54, 0/2, 10/120, 80
Kazusa 15/39, 0/1, 6/70, 70
Shimousa 20/50, 0/0, 7/130, 70
Awa 4/10, 0/0, 3/30, 70
Musashi 39/99, 0/2, 51/315, 80
Sagami 1/23, 0/1, 28/150, 70
Izu 4/8, 1/4, 8/40, 60

Hokuriku district
Echizen 27/69, 0/3, 18/180, 70
Ecchuu 26/63, 1/3, 10/120, 80
Echigo 39/78, 8/15, 12/140, 90
Kaga 17/43, 0/3, 22/140, 80
Noto 9/23, 0/0, 6/60, 70
Sado ????

Chuubu district
Kai 13/26, 10/20, 7/70, 80
Kita-Shinano 17/34, 2/5, 10/110, 90
Minami-Shinano 12/25, 1/3, 10/100, 80
Hida 2/5, 3/10, 5/50, 70
Mino 30/61, 0/1, 17/170, 70

Toukai district
Suruga 9/24, 2/6, 16/170, 50
Tootoumi 13/34, 0/1, /12/130, 60
Mikawa 20/41, 0/2, /14/130, 80
Owari 34/58, 0/0, 27/250, 50
Ise 29/59, 0/2, 20/200, 60
Shima 1/3, 0/0, 2/30, 70

Kinki district
Yamashiro 16/23, 0/0, 18/280, 50
Kita-Oumi 19/32, 0/1, 14/105, 70
Minami-Oumi 31/52, 0/0, 24/235, 60
Yamato 23/46, 0/1, 16/240, 60
Tanba 17/29, 0/2, 6/110, 70
Settsu 26/38, 0/0, 30/350, 50
Kawachi 18/27, 0/0, 15/180, 50
Izumi 11/16, 0/0, 34/220, 50
Kii 20/40, 0/1, 12/150, 60
Iga 3/11, 0/1, 2/20, 100
Wakasa 4/9, 0/0, 4/40, 60

San'in district
Tango 5/13, 1/3, 6/70, 60
Tajima 5/13, 4/12, 6/70, 60
Inaba 6/15, 0/4, 6/80, 60
Houki 7/18, 0/4, 6/70, 60
Izumo 10/26, 0/5, 8/90, 60
Iwami 6/15, 5/14, 6/90, 60
Oki ????

Sanyou district
Harima 22/57, 0/1, 14/190, 50
Mimasaka 8/20, 1/8, 5/70, 60
Bizen 12/31, 0/0, 12/140, 50
Bicchuu 10/27, 0/2, 7/100, 50
Bingo 15/26, 0/3, 18/180, 50
Aki 18/27, 0/4, 48/120, 50
Suou 17/29, 0/3, 76/190, 50
Nagato 14/24, 0/2, 36/90, 50

Shikoku district
Awaji 4/8, 0/0, 20/50, 50
Sanuki 12/21, 0/0, 8/100, 50
Awa 15/25, 1/4, 56/140, 60
Iyo 16/41, 1/4, 11/150, 50
Tosa 11/28, 0/5, 8/120, 80

Kyuushuu district
Buzen 13/27, 0/4, 14/160, 70
Bungo 21/42, 1/5, 14/180, 60
Chikuzen 27/54, 0/3, 15/290, 70
Chikugo 15/31, 0/2, 11/120, 60
Hizen 29/58, 0/3, 20/230, 80
Higo 17/58, 2/10, 14/180, 90
Hyuuga 8/29, 0/4, 12/130, 70
Oosumi 6/22, 0/2, 7/90, 90
Satsuma 14/36, 0/4, 9/110, 100
Ryuukyuu ????

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

I think that is a good idea. I would also divide the amount of kokus in Dewa by 2 and in Mutsu by 4 unless we have better information how to divide kokus between these new provinces.

Or, it could perhaps be multiplied by the ratio of land area of Mutsu belonging to the province. So for example, if it has one fifth of the total area then the koku is multiplied by 0.2.

Gratianus: I don't want copyright infringement here but that data does provide clues.

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

Or, it could perhaps be multiplied by the ratio of land area of Mutsu belonging to the province. So for example, if it has one fifth of the total area then the koku is multiplied by 0.2.

I think that is a good idea but first we should check how mountainous that province is. That restricted economy and agriculture quite effectively.

Are you going to develop an event system such as Paradox used in their games? I think the possiblity of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes should exist and they should damage the economy of a single province.

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

I think that is a good idea but first we should check how mountainous that province is. That restricted economy and agriculture quite effectively.

Are you going to develop an event system such as Paradox used in their games? I think the possiblity of volcanic eruptions and earthquakes should exist and they should damage the economy of a single province.

We'll see, but it's quite probable (however every feature takes time to program).

Were you thinking of historical or random earthquakes/volcanoes. The former should be in I think, about the latter I'm not so sure because generally I become pissed off at excessive numbers of bad events in strategy game. Especially if I can avoid them by save-reloading.

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

We'll see, but it's quite probable (however every feature takes time to program).

Were you thinking of historical or random earthquakes/volcanoes. The former should be in I think, about the latter I'm not so sure because generally I become pissed off at excessive numbers of bad events in strategy game. Especially if I can avoid them by save-reloading.

I think earthquakes should be random events for individual provinces. They shouldn´t damage provinces badly because usually Japanese provinces were quickly rebuilt but that year´s income should be reduced because of rebuilding process.

I think we should gather information on Japanese volcanoes and major eruptions in Sengoku Jidai period. Eruptions would strike against specific provinces where the volcano is. Again, the income from that province should be slightly reduced.

[Gratianus]

I've drawn new map with old coastline.
DOWNLOAD
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload4/Japan.zip

Provinces:

1 Ezo 2 KitaMutsu 3 NakaMutsu 4 MinamiMutsu 5 KitaDewa
6 MinamiDewa 7 Hitachi 8 Shimousa 9 Kazusa 10 Awa
11 Shimotsuke 12 Kouzuke 13 Musashi 14 Sagami 15 Izu
16 Echigo 17 Sado 18 Ecchuu 19 Noto 20 Kaga
21 Echizen 22 Kai 23 Shinano 24 Hida 25 Suruga
26 Tootoumi 27 Mikawa 28 Owari 29 Mino 30 Ise
31 Shima 32 Oumi 33 Wakasa 34 Yamashiro 35 Iga
36 Yamato 37 Kii 38 Kawachi 39 Settsu 40 Izumi
41 Tanba 42 Tango 43 Tajima 44 Inaba 45 Houki
46 Izumo 47 Iwami 48 Nagato 49 Suou 50 Oki
51 Harima 52 Bizen 53 Mimasaka 54 Bicchuu 55 Bingo
56 Aki 57 Awaji 58 Awa 59 Sanuki 60 Iyo
61 Tosa 62 Bunzen 63 Bungo 64 Chikuzen 65 Chikugo
66 Hizen 67 Higo 68 Hyuuga 69 Oosumi 70 Satsuma
71 Tsushima 72 Iki 73 Ryuukyuu

[Gratianus]

Natural disasters in Sengoku period.
1495 storm in Kai
1498 tsunami in Kantou
1498 earthquake (M8.6) in Toukai
1501 famine in Shikoku (seriously damaged)
1502 earthquake (M6.9) in Echigo
1503 drought and famine in the whole country
1510 earthquake (M6.7) in Settsu, Kawachi
1511 typhoon in Oushuu, Kinki, Kyuushuu
1512 storm in Kantou
1512 drought in Musashi, Yamato, Iwami
1517 storm and flood in the whole country
1518 conflagration in Ise
1518 heavy snow in Sagami, Kinki
1520 earthquake (M7.0) in Kii
1532 drought in Ezo, MinamiMutsu, Kai
1532 eruption in Shinano
1535 flood in Mino
1535 drought in the whole country
1539 flood in Kantou, Kinki (seriously damaged)
1540 storm in Ise, Kii
1540 typhoon in Oushuu, Kantou, Chuubu, Kinki
1541 typhoon in Oushuu, Toukai, Kinki
1544 typhoon and flood in Toukai, Kinki
1545 drought in Kai, Bizen, Mimasaka
1550 flood in Ouchuu, Kinki
1551 drought in Kai, Higo
1553 eruption in Izu
1555 earthquake (M6.7) in MinamiMutsu
1557 typhoon and tidal wave in Kinki
1557 drought and famine in Kinki
1558 drought in Yamashiro, Yamato
1569 famine in Ezo
1570 typhoon in Suruga, Tootoumi, Owari (seriously damaged)
1575 strom in Kanto
1575 drought in Harima, Iwami, Izumo
1576 poor harvest in Iwami, Izumo, Hizen
1578 flood in Kinki
1578 heavy snow in Toukai
1579 earthquake (M6.2) in Settsu
1582 eruption in Higo
1584 drought in Musashi, Yamashiro, Kawachi, Izumi
1584 eruption in Higo
1585 eruption in Hida
1586 earthquake (M7.9) in Kantou, Toukai, Hokuriku, Kinki
1596 flood in Kantou, Chuubu (seriously damaged)
1596 eruption in Shinano
1596 earthquake in Kinki
1599 poor harvest in Kantou (seriously damaged)

Japanese volcanoes in Sengoku period
Chausu-dake (Shimotsuke)
Mihara-yama (Izu)
Fuji-san (Suruga)
Asama-yama (Shinano)
Yake-dake (Hida)
Aso-zan (Higo)
Sakurajima (Oosumi)
I don't know any more...

[SirCliveWolfe]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

I think earthquakes should be random events for individual provinces. They shouldn´t damage provinces badly because usually Japanese provinces were quickly rebuilt but that year´s income should be reduced because of rebuilding process.

I think we should gather information on Japanese volcanoes and major eruptions in Sengoku Jidai period. Eruptions would strike against specific provinces where the volcano is. Again, the income from that province should be slightly reduced.

In fact the Total War series scores quite highly for me here. In MedTW there are numerous 'famine' events that effect you but as they do little damage they are ok and set the 'atmosphere' quite well.

Chaingun: Any help I can give just ask... although I dont realy know what help I can be.

[Chaingun]

To all: I will be pretty idle with this until Friday now and won't be writing much in thread.

To Gratianus: Regarding map, will see how it works, I don't think every single small island can be drawn though because exceptionally small pixel areas just look weird when smoothened. However some of your bigger islands weren't on my base map. Thank you for list of events by the way, good reference material, though I think we'll have to check out the relative severities of these things.

EDIT: In general yours is way more accurate though. However, I would like some changes to it in order to be able to import it. First, could you remove those red borders? They would screw over conversion process unforunately. Secondly, limit the number of colors and make them easy to identify; that is, use RGB values such as (255, 0, 0), (0, 255, 0), (0, 0, 255), (255, 255, 0), (0, 255, 255), ( 255, 0, 255) and of course black and white. I know this is mostly what you've done this far but there is some purple shade I don't recognize.

I'll remove islands that are too small myself.

Your map is 3300x2800 pixels, while mine was 3180x4400 pixels. Although the difference is good, I wonder why the proportions are different. I would guess yours is lies rotationally different from mine or something, which allows it to fit into a smaller frame. Anyhow, 3300x2800 is big enough especially since less pixels are wasted to sea area.

[Gratianus]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

EDIT: In general yours is way more accurate though. However, I would like some changes to it in order to be able to import it. First, could you remove those red borders? They would screw over conversion process unforunately. Secondly, limit the number of colors and make them easy to identify; that is, use RGB values such as (255, 0, 0), (0, 255, 0), (0, 0, 255), (255, 255, 0), (0, 255, 255), ( 255, 0, 255) and of course black and white. I know this is mostly what you've done this far but there is some purple shade I don't recognize.

I'll remove islands that are too small myself.

Here you go.
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload0/jp1a.zip
I didn't remove islands, because I had no idea which one to remain or remove.
Please arrange them for yourself.

Your map is 3300x2800 pixels, while mine was 3180x4400 pixels. Although the difference is good, I wonder why the proportions are different. I would guess yours is lies rotationally different from mine or something, which allows it to fit into a smaller frame. Anyhow, 3300x2800 is big enough especially since less pixels are wasted to sea area.

In any case, the propotion and rotation of my map are very familiar to me, and so I've chosen that style.

[Chaingun]

All in all nice work! Though it will take some time before you can see results because I stopped work on the game menu system until Friday for my maths test. This menu is required to access the map. (EU2 style Singleplayer choice.)

How important is the province Ryuukyuu)? The reason I ask is that It'll require some extra programming to account for the fact its physical distance is not its position on this map, and we'll have to mark this out. Not really all that difficult, but I'm just lazy , so I ask whether Ryookuyuu will have much historical value in the Sengdoku period and whether it can be removed.

EDIT: I would like to ask a question for all. Is there any point in having seazones around? I mean, were there any fleet battles of significance or should the only naval consideration be the price of transport from one port province to another? The latter can just be handled by a distance cost multiplier matrix.

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

How important is the province Ryuukyuu)? The reason I ask is that It'll require some extra programming to account for the fact its physical distance is not its position on this map, and we'll have to mark this out. Not really all that difficult, but I'm just lazy , so I ask whether Ryookuyuu will have much historical value in the Sengdoku period and whether it can be removed.

As far as I know that Ryukyu province was a separate kingdom. I think it wasn´t very important in that era.

Kingdom of Ryukyu

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

As far as I know that Ryukyu province was a separate kingdom. I think it wasn´t very important in that era.

Kingdom of Ryukyu

By the way, I will later upload Gratianus map with my island killing changes so he gets the local copy, in case more modifications from him are needed.

EDIT: Another general question, can anyone think of a name for this since I'm tiring for "Japan game".

[Gratianus]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

All in all nice work! Though it will take some time before you can see results because I stopped work on the game menu system until Friday for my maths test. This menu is required to access the map. (EU2 style Singleplayer choice.)

How important is the province Ryuukyuu)? The reason I ask is that It'll require some extra programming to account for the fact its physical distance is not its position on this map, and we'll have to mark this out. Not really all that difficult, but I'm just lazy , so I ask whether Ryookuyuu will have much historical value in the Sengdoku period and whether it can be removed.

I think Ryuukyuu isn't important so much, and so it doesn't matter if the province is removed.

EDIT: I would like to ask a question for all. Is there any point in having seazones around? I mean, were there any fleet battles of significance or should the only naval consideration be the price of transport from one port province to another? The latter can just be handled by a distance cost multiplier matrix.

I support the latter: I searched material of fleet battles, but couldn't find many datas of high importance. And there were not many sea areas where fleets played active parts. It seems to be better that fleet battles are left out of consideration.

[SirCliveWolfe]

Originally Posted by Gratianus

I support the latter: I searched material of fleet battles, but couldn't find many datas of high importance. And there were not many sea areas where fleets played active parts. It seems to be better that fleet battles are left out of consideration.

I agree there is not much to be moddled on the sea... not much in the way of battles until the 20th.c

Originally Posted by Chaingun

EDIT: Another general question, can anyone think of a name for this since I'm tiring for "Japan game".

How about Shogun Total War?... what you say its gone!?!?

Seriously though how about simply Shogun? or Sengoku? or Sengoku, Shogun?

Or if you want to get the OT guys to want the game then call it Ninja's with lightsabers and lazers!!

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by SirCliveWolfe

Seriously though how about simply Shogun? or Sengoku? or Sengoku, Shogun?

I think the best name would be Sengoku or Sengoku Jidai. I think Shogun is too well known. Remember, this is still a shareware project and mixing up with famous titles like James Clavell´s Shogun or STW isn´t a good idea.

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon

I think the best name would be Sengoku or Sengoku Jidai. I think Shogun is too well known. Remember, this is still a shareware project and mixing up with famous titles like James Clavell´s Shogun or STW isn´t a good idea.

Hell it'll even be freeware. (Some shareware can still be paid for due to definition IIRC.)

Yes, I wouldn't choose "Shogun" merely due to "Shogun: Total War". Sengdoku Jidai sounds a bit unorginal (and who'll remember it...). I'm pondering about whether to use some English metaphor for the situation in Sengdoku Japan.

Gratianus: Do you remember the per province koku production you posted a recently? I'd like something similar but for another year (preferably before the 1600s), like around 1500-1550 or so. The reason is, I'll be able to model linear economic growth rates with two data points (and I could experiment with an exponential model if I had more).

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally Posted by Chaingun

I'm pondering about whether to use some English metaphor for the situation in Sengdoku Japan.¨

Anarchy in Japan?