Playing the Minors

Mock5 · 07-12-2004, 01:03

I have played three games all the way through (1.08 vanilla), two as Austria and one as Ottoman. I finished victorious all three times, well ahead of anyone else. However, I attempted a couple of games as some of the minor powers (Teutonic Order, Muscowvy, Moldovia) and was unable to survive even 60 years. In one game as the Teutonic Knights I saved it and restarted as Prussia so that I could see how he was doing. The computer proceeded to build 5 tax collectors and raise 25 troops in the Teutonic Order even though when I saved the game I only had 30 gold and 3 manpower. What gives ?

DSYoungEsq · 07-12-2004, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mock5

I have played three games all the way through (1.08 vanilla), two as Austria and one as Ottoman. I finished victorious all three times, well ahead of anyone else. However, I attempted a couple of games as some of the minor powers (Teutonic Order, Muscowvy, Moldovia) and was unable to survive even 60 years. In one game as the Teutonic Knights I saved it and restarted as Prussia so that I could see how he was doing. The computer proceeded to build 5 tax collectors and raise 25 troops in the Teutonic Order even though when I saved the game I only had 30 gold and 3 manpower. What gives ?

Learn now the lore of the EU creatures!
AI the mighty, cheater on all things.
Major power, easy for humans
German Minor, teaches diplomacy
Byzantium, humbler of egos
Asian Minors, economic disasters.

In short, the AI gets to cheat regarding manpower and economics. So you can't just replicate what they do.

Look around in the forum for advice regarding playing minor countries.

Klorik · 07-12-2004, 02:43

Don't forget to mention native americans, the TP dwellers...

Basically, the best way to survive is to become a major right at the beginning of the game. For example annexing China with ayaya... Ayutata... Thailand within 100 years. Do also use easy wars to get money from peace treaties. At last, try to get ride as soon as possible of the future threats (eg nations around that will become nearly invincible later in the game). For example, OE when you play Byz.

Idontexist258 · 07-12-2004, 02:44

General advice for minors (at least this is how I did it):

Get into alliances against majors on your borders so you can expand without incurring force-annexation BB (so long as you don't leave yourself vulnerable to being annexed before getting that 2nd province).

Once you're 4-5 provinces, find a major power and be its lackey, picking up a province here and there while it fights your neighbors. After you get up to 8-10 provinces, you can start picking your own fights, using your major ally's propensity to send lots of manpower places. Start conquering territories to link up your current holdings.

Alternatively, you can bounce from alliance to alliance, waiting for a war to start then joining in. This works best after tech level 5, when you can join, assault, separate peace, consolidate your gains, rinse, and repeat.

Once you reach 15 provinces or so, you're effectively a major, so keep going.

Flame of Udûn · 07-12-2004, 07:42

Did anyone say Strat egy?

Jkris · 07-12-2004, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mock5

I have played three games all the way through (1.08 vanilla), two as Austria and one as Ottoman. I finished victorious all three times, well ahead of anyone else. However, I attempted a couple of games as some of the minor powers (Teutonic Order, Muscowvy, Moldovia) and was unable to survive even 60 years. In one game as the Teutonic Knights I saved it and restarted as Prussia so that I could see how he was doing. The computer proceeded to build 5 tax collectors and raise 25 troops in the Teutonic Order even though when I saved the game I only had 30 gold and 3 manpower. What gives ?

You get more gold on easier difficult settings and less on hard. Everyone begins with pretty big armies which is more beneficial to the AI since it cheats on support (to the point where I doubt it pay any at all).

of the ones you tried Moldovia can be tricky, but if you get into a alliance with either Hungary or Poland you have a great foundation for succes (preferably using that alliance to pick provinces from the other). Muscowny is easy early on, but can be hard later when your armies never win a battle. But the word is "siege". Teutonic order can also be a bit tricky, but if Poland and Lithuania concentrate on Prussia you can take some territory from Lithuania after some little sieges

EU2 is a game about sieges, not about battles

Flame of Udûn · 07-12-2004, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkris

EU2 is a game about sieges, not about battles

well, depends if you play mp or sp. The AI sucks in battles, but in mp battles are much more important. Going defensive is hardly viable for any country

passer by · 07-12-2004, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame of Udûn

well, depends if you play mp or sp. The AI sucks in battles, but in mp battles are much more important. Going defensive is hardly viable for any country

But then in MP you arent likely to play Moldavia are you? I thought MP tended to be about the big powers bashing each other, Spain, Austria, France, Turkey, England, Poland etc?

Flame of Udûn · 07-12-2004, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by passer by

But then in MP you arent likely to play Moldavia are you? I thought MP tended to be about the big powers bashing each other, Spain, Austria, France, Turkey, England, Poland etc?

true, but EU2 is not a game about sieges

that was what I commented on. There are minors games for mp, and if you play a minor attacking another human minor it's much more important to take out their army than to siege their provinces

passer by · 07-12-2004, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame of Udûn

true, but EU2 is not a game about sieges

It is if your manpower is crap, you cant afford to raise maintain decent armies, so you have to use what you have wisely and not fight battles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame of Udûn

that was what I commented on. There are minors games for mp, and if you play a minor attacking another human minor it's much more important to take out their army than to siege their provinces

I would have thought the key would be to avoid getting your one army smashed rather than seeking out and smashing the other guys army (unless of course you get an uber leader like Bavaria gets Wallenstein I think (or was it Pappenhemi or Tilly?). Then again I have never played MP, so I am talking out of my back side

Klorik · 07-12-2004, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by passer by

I would have thought the key would be to avoid getting your one army smashed rather than seeking out and smashing the other guys army (unless of course you get an uber leader like Bavaria gets Wallenstein I think (or was it Pappenhemi or Tilly?).

Isn't it Austria ?

Mock5 · 07-12-2004, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq

Learn now the lore of the EU creatures!
AI the mighty, cheater on all things.
Major power, easy for humans
German Minor, teaches diplomacy
Byzantium, humbler of egos
Asian Minors, economic disasters.

In short, the AI gets to cheat regarding manpower and economics. So you can't just replicate what they do.

Look around in the forum for advice regarding playing minor countries.

Thanks for all the good advice, from everyone. I just would rather build a mighty empire from humble beginnings than have it handed to me as Austria.
I also don't care for the Colonies. Must be pretty bad to be England and spend all that time and money just to have them disappear when America revolts.

passer by · 07-12-2004, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klorik

Isn't it Austria ?

Some historical generals are shared by several countries. I am pretty sure that one of Wallenstein/ Papenheim/ Tilly exists for both Austria and Bavarian leaderfiles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mock5

I also don't care for the Colonies. Must be pretty bad to be England and spend all that time and money just to have them disappear when America revolts.

Its very easy to avoid teh American revolts, go fully innovative (quite easy with the events England gets after the Civil War, and always choose to invest in the expensive perimeter defenses in the colonial militia events.

Mock5 · 07-12-2004, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by passer by

Some historical generals are shared by several countries. I am pretty sure that one of Wallenstein/ Papenheim/ Tilly exists for both Austria and Bavarian leaderfiles.

Its very easy to avoid teh American revolts, go fully innovative (quite easy with the events England gets after the Civil War, and always choose to invest in the expensive perimeter defenses in the colonial militia events.

I didn't know that. Obviously I am quite the noob. I just assumed that America would be created no matter what, sort of like the Austrian inheritances (unless the OE moves really fast). I am playing Sweden now, got pretty lucky right off the bat with two Tuetonic Order provinces. Then Norway declared war on me and I got their colonies and two provinces. So far so good.

Idontexist258 · 07-12-2004, 20:29

Muscovy's not so bad. Push the Land and Offensive Doctrine sliders all the way, and Quality as far as it will go, and you can get Very Strong morale for 2-3d per thousand. That's enough to beat anyone on your home turf, especially in winter.

The Andy-Man · 07-12-2004, 20:35

i ain't played for a while, but when i did, what i found was fun when yuou play britain is to not build a colonial empire at all, excvept for a few naval bases where you can't get military access. It is (was) surprising how much fun it can be, as well as how you can be alot satrong without having to focus on disjointed territories.

minusa · 08-12-2004, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mock5

Then Norway declared war on me and I got their colonies and two provinces. So far so good.

Better Just control all of their territory (Better all

and then broke you vassalage with Denmark. You'll get it all for no BB.

Mock5 · 08-12-2004, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusa

Better Just control all of their territory (Better all

and then broke you vassalage with Denmark. You'll get it all for no BB.

Thanks for the advice, too late now, but I can try it in another game. Also would this even work, because Norway has already cancelled it's vassalage with Denmark.

Discordant · 08-12-2004, 16:51

For a good minor, I suggest Ethiopia. I finished a game where I controlled Egypt, most of East Africa, A few provinces in India, New Guinea, a few provinces around Malaysia and Indo-China and some of the islands. I stayed well out of European politics and was allied to Holland from the time they rounded the Cape. It was fun but painfully slow for the first 60 years or so.

07-12-2004, 01:03	#1
Mock5 Recruit Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Keep on the Borderlands Posts: 7	Playing the Minors I have played three games all the way through (1.08 vanilla), two as Austria and one as Ottoman. I finished victorious all three times, well ahead of anyone else. However, I attempted a couple of games as some of the minor powers (Teutonic Order, Muscowvy, Moldovia) and was unable to survive even 60 years. In one game as the Teutonic Knights I saved it and restarted as Prussia so that I could see how he was doing. The computer proceeded to build 5 tax collectors and raise 25 troops in the Teutonic Order even though when I saved the game I only had 30 gold and 3 manpower. What gives ?

07-12-2004, 02:43	#3
Klorik Lèchouilleur baveux Demi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sur Liste Noire Posts: 2,055	Don't forget to mention native americans, the TP dwellers... Basically, the best way to survive is to become a major right at the beginning of the game. For example annexing China with ayaya... Ayutata... Thailand within 100 years. Do also use easy wars to get money from peace treaties. At last, try to get ride as soon as possible of the future threats (eg nations around that will become nearly invincible later in the game). For example, OE when you play Byz. __________________ Le réveil du bogAARtyr On groyais tout zavoir des AArpad..., et son AARbre généalogique Autres contributions AARtistiques

07-12-2004, 07:42	#5
Flame of Udûn Ştefan cel Mare Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Suceava, Moldavia Posts: 2,454	Did anyone say Strat egy? __________________ - Suceava - Court of Moldavia - This place is terrrible terrrrible :ww1: :ww1: :ww1:

07-12-2004, 20:35	#16
The Andy-Man Lt. General Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,686	i ain't played for a while, but when i did, what i found was fun when yuou play britain is to not build a colonial empire at all, excvept for a few naval bases where you can't get military access. It is (was) surprising how much fun it can be, as well as how you can be alot satrong without having to focus on disjointed territories. __________________ 'There will be a CK2'

07-12-2004, 02:44	#4
Idontexist258 Second Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 170	General advice for minors (at least this is how I did it): Get into alliances against majors on your borders so you can expand without incurring force-annexation BB (so long as you don't leave yourself vulnerable to being annexed before getting that 2nd province). Once you're 4-5 provinces, find a major power and be its lackey, picking up a province here and there while it fights your neighbors. After you get up to 8-10 provinces, you can start picking your own fights, using your major ally's propensity to send lots of manpower places. Start conquering territories to link up your current holdings. Alternatively, you can bounce from alliance to alliance, waiting for a war to start then joining in. This works best after tech level 5, when you can join, assault, separate peace, consolidate your gains, rinse, and repeat. Once you reach 15 provinces or so, you're effectively a major, so keep going.

07-12-2004, 20:29	#15
Idontexist258 Second Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 170	Muscovy's not so bad. Push the Land and Offensive Doctrine sliders all the way, and Quality as far as it will go, and you can get Very Strong morale for 2-3d per thousand. That's enough to beat anyone on your home turf, especially in winter.

08-12-2004, 16:51	#19
Discordant Corporal Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29	For a good minor, I suggest Ethiopia. I finished a game where I controlled Egypt, most of East Africa, A few provinces in India, New Guinea, a few provinces around Malaysia and Indo-China and some of the islands. I stayed well out of European politics and was allied to Holland from the time they rounded the Cape. It was fun but painfully slow for the first 60 years or so.