1066 Rus

[Solmyr]

Ok, I've written up a preliminary list of what needs to be changed in the 1066 Rus setup. Most notably, the various unhistorical minor counts should go, and most land should be directly under the rule of Princes at this time. AI Princes will distribute lands to counts soon enough (most likely to their sons and relatives, as it should be).

Here are my notes on province rearrangement as well as dynastic notes. All male characters come from the same dynasty, Rurikovich (id = 705). Many characters I mention below are already defined in the scenario files, so I list their current id as well as any notes on how I suggest altering their stats. Below I do not mention the various Rurkoviches who are already dead in 1066 (they can be left alone, no need to mess with them). If a character does not exist in the scenario files, I have them marked as *ADD*. Several characters have generic wives added for them (1.02 added a lot of wives to Catholic counts, but seems to have forgotten the Orthodox ones)
I also have listed the likely claims for each ruler, to simulate the incessant dynastic conflict that marked this period in Rus.

Principality of Kiev
Ruler
Izyaslav (game id=626, born 1024, 4/6/2/5, Just, Honest, Merciful, Forgiving, Lazy, Misguided Warrior)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../izyaslav1.htm
Wife
Gertruda Piast (game id=761, born 1025, should NOT be dead yet, should be moved to KIEV tag)
Children
- Mstislav (first son, Prince of Novgorod, see below);
- Yaropolk (game id=684, second son, born 1047, Misguided Warrior);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...aropolkizy.htm
- Sviatopolk (game id=652, third son, born 1050, 7/5/6/6, Cruel, Vengeful, Valorous, Selfish, Arbitrary, Tough Soldier);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...vyatopolk2.htm
- Evpraxia (*ADD*, daughter, born 1060, Court Education)

Other relatives as courtiers in Kiev
- Rurik (game id=9126, born 1058, 3/5/5/4, Martial Education)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../rurikros1.htm
- Volodar (game id=9128, born 1060, 4/5/5/6, Martial Education)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../vladimirr.htm
- Vasilko (*ADD*, brother of the above two, son of Rostislav (id=670), born 1062, 5/7/5/7)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...s/vasilkor.htm
NOTE: Rurik, Volodar, and Vasilko have a claim on Count of Tmutarakan

- Boris (*ADD*, son of Vyacheslav (*ADD*, born 1036 died 1057), grandson of Yaroslav (id=612), born 1053, 3/4/6/6, Reckless, Martial Education, claim on Smolensk)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...s/borisvya.htm

- Davyd (game id=668, born 1059, Valorous, Martial Education, claim on Vladimir Volynsky and Smolensk)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../davidigor.htm

Provinces
Beresty
Galich
Kiev (capital)
Korsun
Lyubech
Peremyshl
Pinsk
Podlasie
Terebovl
Torki
Turov
Vladimir Volynsky
Claims
Prince of Smolensk, Prince of Polotsk

Principality of Novgorod
Ruler
Mstislav (game id=686, son of Izyaslav Prince of Kiev, born 1043, 4/5/5/5, Valorous, Vengeful, Misguided Warrior)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...mstislaviz.htm
Wife
Predslava (*ADD* generic wife, born 1047, 4/6/6/5, Grey Eminence)
Children
- Rostislav (game id=122503, born 1065)

Provinces
Bezhetsky Verh
Chud
North Dvina
Novgorod (capital)
Onega
Pskov
Romny
Staraya Russa
Torzhok
Trans-Portage
Velikiye Luki
Vodi
Vologda
Zaozerye

Principality of Chernigov
NOTE: There is no tag for Chernigov in the game, unfortunately. I suggest using PRON (Pronsk) and renaming it to Chernigov in world_names.csv. See also my rearranged principality-claiming provinces in one of the posts below.

Ruler
Svyatoslav (game id=628, born 1027, 6/6/6/7, Energetic, Wise, Zealous, Knowledged Tactician)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory...vyatoslav2.htm

Wife
Oda Staden (game id=1353, should be moved to PRON or whichever tag Chernigov is given)

Children
- Gleb (first son, count of Tmutarakan, see below);
- Oleg (game id=660, second son, born 1052, 8/7/7/5, Valorous, Martial Education);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/olegs.htm
- Davyd (game id=656, third son, born 1055, 7/7/6/4, Martial Education)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/davids.htm
- Roman (game id=658, fourth son, born 1057, 4/5/7/6, Martial Education);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/romansv.htm
- Yaroslav (game id=662, fifth son, born 1065)

Provinces
Bryansk
Chernigov (capital)
Kolomna
Murom
Novgorod Seversky
Pronsk
Ryazan
Claims
Prince of Smolensk, Prince of Novgorod, Prince of Kiev

County of Tmutarakan (vassal of Chernigov)
Ruler
Gleb (game id=654, son of Sviatoslav Prince of Chernigov, born 1050, 5/6/6/7, Martial Education); no family (underage ruler)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/glebs.htm

Provinces
Korchev
Tmutarakan (capital)

Principality of Pereyaslavl
Ruler
Vsevolod (game id=630, born 1030, 6/8/6/9, Wise, Temperate, Knowledged Tactician)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../vsevelod1.htm

Wife
Anastasia Monomachus (*ADD*, daughter of Constantine Monomachus Emperor of Byzantium (id=1726), born 1033, 6/7/8/8, Fortune Builder)
Children
- Vladimir Monomakh (first son, Count of Rostov, see below);
- Anna (*ADD*, daughter, born 1055, 3/8/6/8, Ecclesiastical Education (she was an abbess later in life))

Provinces
Beloozero
Galich Mersky
Gorodez
Kostroma
Moskva
Mozhaysk
Mstislavl
Nizhny Novgorod
Pereyaslavl (capital)
Smolensk
Suzdal
Tver
Uglich
Veliky Ustug
Vladimir
Vyazma
Yaroslavl
Claims
Prince of Kiev, Prince of Chernigov

County of Rostov (vassal of Pereyaslavl)
Ruler
Vladimir Monomakh (game id=666, son of Vsevolod Prince of Pereyaslavl, born 1053, 7/9/6/10, Court Education, Wise, Just); no family yet
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../vladimir2.htm

Provinces
Pereyaslavl Zalessky
Rostov (capital)

Principality of Polotsk
Ruler
Vseslav (game id=650, born 1030, 7/7/8/6, Sceptical, Trusting, Knowledgeable Tactician)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/vslavi.htm

Wife
Sofia (*ADD* generic wife, born 1034, 5/5/5/4, Flamboyant Schemer)
Children
- Davyd (game id=676, first son, born 1050, 7/5/4/6, Martial Education, Valorous, Cruel)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/davidvs.htm
- Boris (game id=678, second son, born 1051, 6/7/5/5, Martial Education)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/borisvs.htm
- Gleb (game id=672, third son, born 1053, 6/6/6/5, Valorous, Martial Education);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/glebvs.htm
- Roman (game id=674, fourth son, born 1055, 7/6/5/5, Martial Education);
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory/rulers/romanvs.htm
- Rostislav (*ADD*, fifth son, born 1060, 5/6/6/7, Martial Education)
- Sviatoslav (game id=682, sixth son, born 1063, 6/5/4/7)
- Rogvolod (game id=680, seventh son, born 1065, 7/8/4/7)

Provinces
Jacwiez
Minsk
Orsha
Polotsk (capital)
Vitebsk
West Dvina
Claims
Prince of Kiev, Prince of Novgorod, Prince of Smolensk

The following two provinces should be given to Tribe of Sames
Hlynov (currently county of Hlynov)
Syrj (currently county of Syrj)


Other Rurikovich relatives in other courts:
- Anastasia (game id=637, born 1023, wife of Andras King of Hungary, mother of Salamon King of Hungary, is in the court of Hungary)
- Anna (game id=627, born 1024, wife of Henri King of France, mother of Philippe King of France, is in the court of France)
- Dobronega (game id=13501, dynasty should be 705; details in the 1066 Bohemia thread)
- Agatha (game id=467; she is listed as a daughter of the Hungarian King Istvan, but there is evidence that she was in fact a daughter of Vladimir the Great; see this note for details; otherwise she is correctly set up as wife of Edward the Exile and mother of Edgar Atheling; she is in the ENGL tag)

[Solmyr]

Expanded the above, adding more traits to the historical characters as well as links with info on them.

[Solmyr]

My recommendations for rearrangement of higher titles in the area:

Kingdoms

Duchies/Principalities

[Arkady]

and don't forget Dobronega (Maria) Rurikovich (id = 13501) (born after 1012 - d.1087), last daughter of Vladimir I Velikiy (the Great) and probably his 6th wife , daughter of Konrad I of Swabia

wife of Kazimir I Karol (b.1016 - d.1058), king of Poland

she was wrongly setup..see my 1066 Bohemia thread for her updated details (dynasty and dates)

[Arkady]

BTW good starting point for Rurikids is http://genealogy.euweb.cz/russia/rurik1.html....good list, sometimes not exactly right but with spare sources unvaluable for checks at least

from index page you can find other dynasties

[Solmyr]

Originally Posted by Arkady

BTW good starting point for Rurikids is http://genealogy.euweb.cz/russia/rurik1.html....good list, sometimes not exactly right but with spare sources unvaluable for checks at least

from index page you can find other dynasties

I know, I use that website extensively for my genealogy research. My basic Rurikovich framework came from there, the site linked in my writeup above is good for looking up personalities of people (for assigning traits and the like).

[Solmyr]

Edited my first post with the following updates:

- added Dobronega and Agatha to the Rurikovichi in other courts list
- revised some people's sons (mainly restored all sons which I previously suggested removing, as there are no certain birth dates for most of them)

[Solmyr]

Ok, I decided to include the steppe and the small Siberian areas that are in CK in this thread, since they tend to be closely connected with Rus. Here are a couple of notes that I had on these areas:

- Bezhetsky Verh (409) and Vologda (406) should be Orthodox religion (currently Pagan Russian)
- Hlynov (401) and Syrj (399) should be changed to Pagan Lappish (per my suggestion above that they be given to Chiefdom of Sames, and Lappish seems to be the culture used for the pagan tribes north of Rus)
- Zaozerye (404), Chud (405), Romny (403), North Dvina (395) should be changed to Lappish culture

And a political border modification:
- Syrt (609), Lower Volga (608), Saray (619), and Itil (620) should be transferred from Emirate of Volga to Kingdom of Cuman. The khanate of Volga Bulgar did not extend so far south, it was a rather small nation around the confluence of Volga and Kama. The steppes immediately north of the Caspian were originally Khazar, then controlled by the Cumans.

[C.N.]

I made a few changes in Russia in v4. Nothing major, because I didn't want to loose (track of) characters that should be deleted. I just made Pskov a county and a vassal of Novgorod and made Beretsy, Poldasie and Valdimir V. vassals of Kiev.

[C.N.]

Originally Posted by Solmyr

I
Principality of Pereyaslavl
Ruler
Vsevolod (game id=630, born 1030, 6/8/6/9, Wise, Temperate, Knowledged Tactician)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../vsevelod1.htm

Wife
Anastasia Monomachus (*ADD*, daughter of Constantine Monomachus Emperor of Byzantium (id=1726), born 1033, 6/7/8/8, Fortune Builder)

It seems that Anastasia is already in the game but is named Irene (id =1727).

[Solmyr]

Originally Posted by C.N.

It seems that Anastasia is already in the game but is named Irene (id =1727).

Yes, I noticed that too. Irene was the name she was known by in Rus. Either can be used (I'd go with Anastasia myself, since CK generally gives characters their original cultural names).
She should also be moved to the Pereyaslavl tag (and IIRC standard CK setup has her dead in 1066, which she shouldn't be). Make sure she is also set as married to Vsevolod in 1066_scenario_relations.inc, and set as mother to Vladimir.

[Solmyr]

Vladimir Monomakh (game id=666, son of Vsevolod Prince of Pereyaslavl, born 1053, 7/9/6/10, Court Education, Wise, Just); no family yet

On a related note, CK has Vladimir married to Gytha Godwineson, daughter of Harold. This should be removed (and Gytha moved to ENGL tag if she isn't there), as the marriage did not occur until the early 1070s.

[C.N.]

Originally Posted by Solmyr

Yes, I noticed that too. Irene was the name she was known by in Rus. Either can be used (I'd go with Anastasia myself, since CK generally gives characters their original cultural names).
She should also be moved to the Pereyaslavl tag (and IIRC standard CK setup has her dead in 1066, which she shouldn't be). Make sure she is also set as married to Vsevolod in 1066_scenario_relations.inc, and set as mother to Vladimir.

- Deathyear to 1067
- Move to Pereyaslavl
- Marriage & son-mother OK.

What about the current child ruler of Tmutarakan? Rurik, son of Rostislav & Agata. He is not the one you have listed. Where should he belong?

[Solmyr]

Originally Posted by C.N.

What about the current child ruler of Tmutarakan? Rurik, son of Rostislav & Agata. He is not the one you have listed. Where should he belong?

He is this guy from my post above:

- Rurik (game id=9126, born 1058, 3/5/5/4, Martial Education)

Basically, Rostislav was the previous count of Tmutarakan who was poisoned in early 1066. He left three underage sons (Rurik, Volodar, and Vasilko, whom I have listed above). The sons did not succeed him however, they were deprived of their inheritance and were basically wandering around seeking support. I put them as courtiers in Kiev to "anchor" them somewhere. Historically they later got land in Galicia and Volhynia, which the Prince of Kiev held in 1066.

The correct ruler of Tmutarakan after Rostislav is Gleb, son of Prince Sviatoslav of Chernigov (again, see my first post).

[C.N.]

Originally Posted by Solmyr

Other relatives as courtiers in Kiev

- Davyd (game id=668, born 1059, Valorous, Martial Education, claim on Vladimir Volynsky and Smolensk)
http://www.xenophongi.org/rushistory.../davidigor.htm

I found the mother of this character, Kunigunde, in Duchy of Meissen. Daughter of Otto (Orlamunde).
There is just a little problem, she is just 7 years old.

EDIT: I found a link which gives her real age:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1150/hhl.html

I checked some more and it seems that there are two Kunigunde, one who is the sister of Otto and one who is the daughter.
Both also married princes of Rus.
One married Igor son of Jaroslav and one married Jaropolk son of ?.

[Solmyr]

Originally Posted by C.N.

I found the mother of this character, Kunigunde, in Duchy of Meissen. Daughter of Otto (Orlamunde).
There is just a little problem, she is just 7 years old.

EDIT: I found a link which gives her real age:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1150/hhl.html

I checked some more and it seems that there are two Kunigunde, one who is the sister of Otto and one who is the daughter.
Both also married princes of Rus.
One married Igor son of Jaroslav and one married Jaropolk son of ?.

The Yaropolk in question is son of Izyaslav Prince of Kiev. He is the guy with id=684. He married the Kunigunde who was the daughter of Otto. I'm not sure when this marriage took place though, I suspect it was after 1066.

[DoS]

Maybe I can help you out here a little. Kunigunde von Weimar-Orlamünde (born about 1060) daughter of Otto Duke of Meissen in 1066 and Adela de Louvain. She married about 1073 a Jaropolk of Wladimir (who died in 1086). I´m nearly 100% certain, that Otto had no sister at all, and I´ve really digged into that issue, but I´ll search again and maybe find out something about it.

Edit: the link to the above mentioned site with gen.-data produces often not the best results, I take the dates from that german site, which almost never failed me:
http://www.genealogie-mittelalter.de...en_+_1140.html

[DoS]

Originally Posted by C.N.

I checked some more and it seems that there are two Kunigunde, one who is the sister of Otto and one who is the daughter.
Both also married princes of Rus.
One married Igor son of Jaroslav and one married Jaropolk son of ?.

I´ve looked into it and found a mistake I already know, which most sites make. The Kunigunde in your link is listed as daughter of Willhelm IV, problem: he is the brother, not the father of Otto. He wasn´t married however until 1062 and died when he accompanied his wife Sophia of Hungary back to hungary. Then his brother otto took over Meissen. Otto and Wilhelm didn´t have a sister. The chances that there is any family member of those of Weimar-Orlamünde have slipped me are very low, I think. I hope I could help you a little...

[C.N.]

I have nearly finished adding the Rus changes. I have only removal of the last non-historic counties, default duchy borders, claims and new characters left.

This raises the following points:
- I'm waiting for the new character entries. Like I said before, I not making those. I give you an id range, you write the entries and post them. I add them to the latest version.
- Someone needs to hold title Prince of Smolensk to allow people to claim it.
I will give it to the prince of Pereyaslavl, if you don't think otherwise.
- The lack of nobles in Novgorod & Pereyaslavl is a problem that make me reluctant to remove the ahistorical counts in those two principalities.

[Solmyr]

- I'm waiting for the new character entries. Like I said before, I not making those. I give you an id range, you write the entries and post them. I add them to the latest version.

I've made most of them, I'll post them today or tomorrow.

- Someone needs to hold title Prince of Smolensk to allow people to claim it.

Pereyaslavl is good. Smolensk was actually fought over from 1060 to 1068, but the Pereyaslavl branch ended up controlling it, which is why gave them the ownership and everyone else the claims.

- The lack of nobles in Novgorod & Pereyaslavl is a problem that make me reluctant to remove the ahistorical counts in those two principalities.

I realize that Novgorod and Pereyaslavl look big initially with all those provinces. But given that all the principalities have Salic Gavelkind, in a generation or two they will become fragmented quite nicely. This is historically accurate, too.
In any case, some counts could be left in (for less important places in the northeastern region). All starting bishops should definitely go though, the church never held such significant lands in Rus, certainly not in 1066.

If you decide to leave some counts in, then I suggest giving the counties to the various currently landless Rurikovichi (e.g. the ones I assigned to the court of Kiev - Rurik, Volodar, Vasilko, Boris, & Davyd). Though it's not quite correct, it would be better to have Rurikovich rulers than some random counts.

My suggestions for "expendable" counties that can be given to other people:
From Novgorod: Torzhok, Vologda
From Pereyaslavl: Beloozero, Mozhaysk, Smolensk (could leave Davyd as ruler of Smolensk like he is in standard CK, but as a count rather than prince)

Additionally, you can transfer Vladimir and maybe Suzdal from Pereyaslavl to the vassal Rostov (Vladimir Monomakh founded Vladimir Town, and IIRC his grandson founded Suzdal). Just be careful that Vladimir Monomakh cannot declare himself a prince right away and break away from his father.