Modifying Communist China (and Nationalist China)

Generalisimo · 22-01-2003, 03:40

well, as i have discused in the bug forum, Communist China is vastly underrated.
They do not have any technology and they will never receive from any neighbours (in Bolt Mod, he added events for Nationalist China), so you only depend on your IC to develop some technology.
Also, they start with 50 manpower pool, and they get an increase level of... 0.3

that not too much, and even when you conquer the ENTIRE China + Tibet + Manchukuo, you only get 3 (+or-) manpower per month...so they will never be able to build a little army.
I posted this in the bug forum, and Vulture has added this to the Bug List (Thanks Vulture

), so maybe we have a solution in 1.03... i hope so

In the meantime, or to help Paradox people, i want to modify the manpower of both Communist China (CC) and Nationalist China (NC) to make them more playable.
Right now they start with these numbers:
CC=50MP
NC=5000MP
they increasing manpower pool is:
CC=0.3MP
NC=3.0MP
so this is big diference...
I decided to make the starting pool of NC 2500, because i doubt they will be able to call to duty all that men, so we have 2500 men in reserve to use in events (suposing the 5000 MP is the total population that can fight in the war).
Now we can add events that add volunteers to the CC every year, or we can add more manpower to increasing manpower of the provinces, so the faction that controls most provinces will get more manpower.
i think the best is a mix of both

my idea is:
we have 12 years: 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 so we can add events that add 100 MP to CC every 6 months, so they will receive 2 per year, being 12 years is: 2*12*100=2400MP to CC, is more fair now?
and also increase the manpower of provinces...
but now, i got a problem, i do not have numbers of this, the info that i get is not precise, so i have to make a lot of guesses, for now, my changes have resulted in:
CC: 0.6 p/m
NC: 7.8 p/m
Sinkiang: 1.3 p/m (that will surelly go to NC

)

what do you think?
any info will be welcome.
i expect your opinion people...

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 13:37

well, just curious... nobody cares a sh** about both Chinas? or nobody knows anything about them?.... just a question...

well, speaking seriuously, i have been working on the events to give CC more manpower and they work OK, but now, i must find a way to give them so techs, what do you recommend?
1) the Soviet Union sends "gifts" (techs)
2) suddenly appears in Communist China
3) can you think of another one?

what do you think?

Aregorn · 23-01-2003, 14:36

The thing is Gen. that even though china was not strongly united, the nationalists did hold some sort of unification by the time the Japs arrived, being able to generate an opposition against them, and by that at least stop them. Initially in HOI usually Japan was annexing china, but Bolt did fix the issue there.
If you want stronger communist china, it will make a whole change in history and a quite complicated situation on the political outcome in Asia. Might be then that against history the Japs would finally annex china, because a strongly divided one is still there. I guess things in HOI are made for the Nationalists to be the strongest to simulate the real outcome, you may change things with a big power intervention, and if the communists take over the nationalist with some help, increasing the manpower for them would be fine with events (later on), if they can crash the nationalists. In a scenario like this, it would be nice a soviet intervention by scientific research (not manpower or military aid, as it would have shocked the whole bunch of enemies of the communist ideas) and you know the Soviet were kept under the microscope at that time, and as someone said, the Nazis might have become the good guys after all. Anyhow I never played as china so far, and I do not really know how do things develop during the game for them, apart from that now the nationalist do give a fight to the Japs, thanks to Bolt, simulating more the real outcome.

JouniL · 23-01-2003, 14:55

I don't much about Chinas (and don't care much either

), but it sound's ok. One (I think it's most realistic, or maybe not...) tech event could be that some of the NC's scientist would defect to commies, but problem is that NC don't have much tech either...

And maybe some kind of propaganda event's where some NC's troops in commies neibhor? provinces would defect to Commies, but I don't now how to do that...

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Aregorn
The thing is Gen. that even though china was not strongly united, the nationalists did hold some sort of unification by the time the Japs arrived, being able to generate an opposition against them, and by that at least stop them. Initially in HOI usually Japan was annexing china, but Bolt did fix the issue there.
If you want stronger communist china, it will make a whole change in history and a quite complicated situation on the political outcome in Asia. Might be then that against history the Japs would finally annex china, because a strongly divided one is still there. I guess things in HOI are made for the Nationalists to be the strongest to simulate the real outcome, you may change things with a big power intervention, and if the communists take over the nationalist with some help, increasing the manpower for them would be fine with events (later on), if they can crash the nationalists. In a scenario like this, it would be nice a soviet intervention by scientific research (not manpower or military aid, as it would have shocked the whole bunch of enemies of the communist ideas) and you know the Soviet were kept under the microscope at that time, and as someone said, the Nazis might have become the good guys after all. Anyhow I never played as china so far, and I do not really know how do things develop during the game for them, apart from that now the nationalist do give a fight to the Japs, thanks to Bolt, simulating more the real outcome.

well, how do you think the People's Republic of China was created in 1949??? by a miracle???

The commies are usually annexed in the first week of the game if Nat. China is use by a player...

Also, if the commies and Nat. China are used by the AI, the commies will never do anything...
so all this is far away from reality.... as far as i know, someone told me here that he had studied all that period of China, and the commies fought a lot of battles, that's how they get their power, and the nationalist tried to avoid big battles, so the commies will become more and more weak, so they will be easilly destroy after the war... this was not the case, the commies gain a lot of power, volunteers and supplies, so they finally destroyed the nationalists one year after the end of the timeframe of HoI.
Also, this guy ( i will try to find the thread, but the search engine doesn't work right to find old posts

) also told me that the nationalists maintained their best troops in reserve, so they could use them later against the commies, and they don't loose them against the japs. Well, those troops could not stand a chance against the commies, a thing that is not represented here... because Nat. China is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR more powerfull than the commies, AND the commies will never get manpower from China (China increasing manpower level is 3.0, so , you need a complete year to make 1 infantry division

, this is because all the manpower is assigned to Nationalist China, they start with 5000 MP

).
This, as you can see, cannot be reproduce in HoI, you can hardly conquer some provinces in HoI with Commie China, you don't have rubber, and you are at war most of the time, so you can't use the world market, so your industry will not run because you lack of conversion techs (oil -> rubber).
Well, i must admit that i didn't study a lot about China's history, so i will be grateful if someone can clarify some points of how the battles between the commies and the nationalists went in that time, because my only source is an old post here in this forum.

Aregorn · 23-01-2003, 15:12

By the way Gen, how do you change the manpower of a nation? Thanks to you the looks of my HOI had increased 1000%. If you remember you taught me how to change the flags. These nice results made me brave enough to explore within this GFX folder further (I think that’s the way it was called, maybe something similar) and I could add the pictures I liked for some leaders (Guderians in the German army was terrible, now is perfect). Did you realise how careless the images of some leaders were added to fit the size of the game??? Instead of cropping them to make them at the correct size for the game, which would have taken no more than an hour for all of them, they just redefined the measures in 5 minutes without caring for the proportions, making little aliens. If they did not care spending extra minutes for that (yes extra minutes not extra hours or days), how can we expect a reasonable AI?
Anyhow, continuing, I could also paint my own uniforms for the interphase, honestly an orange infantry picture did not resemble much a Wehrmacht uniform.
I am about to change the colours of the infantry sprites in the map as well (to better simulate the original uniforms) but that will be a lot more time consuming, so it will be slower, because there are so many pictures to fix just for one unit and one action. But then it will be nice if I can explore in this area of the events as well. My German army has far too much manpower. I would like to make it more like Italy. Also I would like to change the costs of tanks, and maybe adjust some unit attributes (like attack-defence, etc) but then I guess I do not have the programme to open and modify this files? or am I not seeing something obvious?
Thanks Gen.

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 15:22

it is all in texts files (or ".csv"), so, you only have to find the right one.

i can tell you how to change the manpower of countries at the start of the scenario because i remember how to do it, the rest no, because i am at work

you have to go to your HoI directory:
..\Paradox Entertainment\Hearts of Iron\scenarios\1936
there you will find a lot of ".inc" files, this files are the configuration of every country in 1936 scenario, you can change everything you want for every country. (the OOB, their resources, the manpower,etc).
the files are self explanatory, so i will not make much detail about them ("manpower" what modifies? "oil" ? "rubber"? so, as you can see, is very easy to mod that

).

Aregorn · 23-01-2003, 15:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Generalisimo
well, how do you think the People's Republic of China was created in 1949??? by a miracle???
The commies are usually annexed in the first week of the game if Nat. China is use by a player...
Also, if the commies and Nat. China are used by the AI, the commies will never do anything...
so all this is far away from reality.... as far as i know, someone told me here that he had studied all that period of China, and the commies fought a lot of battles, that's how they get their power, and the nationalist tried to avoid big battles, so the commies will become more and more weak, so they will be easilly destroy after the war... this was not the case, the commies gain a lot of power, volunteers and supplies, so they finally destroyed the nationalists one year after the end of the timeframe of HoI.
Also, this guy ( i will try to find the thread, but the search engine doesn't work right to find old posts ) also told me that the nationalists maintained their best troops in reserve, so they could use them later against the commies, and they don't loose them against the japs. Well, those troops could not stand a chance against the commies, a thing that is not represented here... because Nat. China is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR more powerfull than the commies, AND the commies will never get manpower from China (China increasing manpower level is 3.0, so , you need a complete year to make 1 infantry division , this is because all the manpower is assigned to Nationalist China, they start with 5000 MP ).
This, as you can see, cannot be reproduce in HoI, you can hardly conquer some provinces in HoI with Commie China, you don't have rubber, and you are at war most of the time, so you can't use the world market, so your industry will not run because you lack of conversion techs (oil -> rubber).
Well, i must admit that i didn't study a lot about China's history, so i will be grateful if someone can clarify some points of how the battles between the commies and the nationalists went in that time, because my only source is an old post here in this forum.

What is floating in my mind from something I read somewhere is that the nationalists under Chang kai chek (I do not remember how to spell it) crushed Mao’s communists. When his leadership was kaput, the nationalists lost power and Mao took over. But I might be completely bullshitting here. I will see if I can find something and confirm it later.

Aregorn · 23-01-2003, 15:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Generalisimo
it is all in texts files (or ".csv"), so, you only have to find the right one.
i can tell you how to change the manpower of countries at the start of the scenario because i remember how to do it, the rest no, because i am at work
you have to go to your HoI directory:
..\Paradox Entertainment\Hearts of Iron\scenarios\1936
there you will find a lot of ".inc" files, this files are the configuration of every country in 1936 scenario, you can change everything you want for every country. (the OOB, their resources, the manpower,etc).
the files are self explanatory, so i will not make much detail about them ("manpower" what modifies? "oil" ? "rubber"? so, as you can see, is very easy to mod that ).

Thanks Gen, I do not have the game right now, I am in a work brake too, but as far as I can remember my windows xp, did not open this files because I do not have the correct programme to to so. Can that be possible? I will check it again anyway

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 15:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Aregorn
Thanks Gen, I do not have the game right now, I am in a work brake too, but as far as I can remember my windows xp, did not open this files because I do not have the correct programme to to so. Can that be possible? I will check it again anyway

i use Excel XP to open the .csv files and the Notepad for all the others (they are not "connected" to the notepad, just select "Open with..." and then select Notepad).

JouniL · 23-01-2003, 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Aregorn
Thanks Gen, I do not have the game right now, I am in a work brake too, but as far as I can remember my windows xp, did not open this files because I do not have the correct programme to to so. Can that be possible? I will check it again anyway

I don't have xp, but is there a notepad? If so, you can open the files with that.

Btw. I suggest you look at these pages, there's much (everything?) info how to edit/mod the HoI:

http://editing.hearts-of-iron.com/

I just printed all pages (about 40 or so..), and I'm starting to make 2001-map, just for fun...

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 15:44

well, going back to the CHina's subject...

i have found this info:

"The predecessor of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), the Red Army, came into being with the Nanchang Uprising on 1 August 1927. On the basis of Mao Zedong's theory of 'people's war', this revolutionary army was to have both a political and social role. These roles consisted of doing propaganda among the masses, organizing the masses, arming the masses, helping them to establish revolutionary political power and setting up Party organizations. While doing this, the Party at all times was to maintain control over the army.

The fact that most Chinese political leaders (Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Zhu De, Ye Jianying, Lin Biao) had military carreers reflects this dual role of the PLA. The participation of the political elite in military affairs also meant that there was little emphasis on formal training of officers. In the PLA, being 'red' was always considered better than being 'expert'. The political character of the PLA also contributed to the formation of a mystique of the army as a disciplined, politically conscious force that was closely engaged with the task of rebuilding the nation.

Traditionally, the military had a very low social status in China, aside from a folklore built around romantic soldiers and military heroes of virtue. "Good iron is not made into nails, a good man does not become a soldier", as the popular saying goes. This image changed dramatically during the revolutionary war period; joining the PLA became an aspiration for many young people, in particular for those of worker or peasant background. Aside from patriotic motives, joining the PLA almost automatically led to acceptance by the Party, and this in turn opened various career prospects. The army enabled young people to acquire skills that were useful in civilian life; demobilized soldiers were honored in their villages and, very important, had good access to the local bureaucracy. Many became cadres themselves, thereby providing status for their families. Others played a major role in national politics, in particular after 1969, when the PLA was called in to restore order after the Cultural Revolution had resulted in total chaos.

As a fighting force, the PLA has often been able to accomplish astonishing military feats in the face of adversity. Despite often inadquate armaments, the Army succeeded in defeating superior Nationalist forces during the civil war of 1946-1949, paving the way for the founding of the PRC. Although undereducated and underbudgeted, the PLA applied guerrilla tactics, emphasizing flexibility and a close integration with the people. Constant ideological training prepared the soldiers for hardship and sacrifice for the revolutionary cause."

well, as you can see, Mao indeed beat the nationalists...

but i need more facts about that...

JouniL · 23-01-2003, 15:54

This gives me more reasons to believe that there should be event which would make some NC soldiers to defect to Commies, or even better, event what would make more troops to Commies as their war proceeds. But I think you can't make troops with events? They could also get much supplies by events because of their proganda (peasant etc. would give them food).

So my main point is, that they need more troops, not more techs, because I don't think Commies had better techs than Nationalist.

I'll read about their history on weekend, if I can find more about PLA and their war.

Generalisimo · 23-01-2003, 16:00

yes, i think it will be better to add with events just more supplies and manpower.
BUT, if they do not get some techs for putting their organization better than the nationalists (maybe 5 or 10 points, nothing more), they will never win a battle...

so, i do not have the game, but maybe some early land doctrines could make the things better for the commies...

about the creation of armies, no, you cannot create one with an event. BUT you can defect an army from one country (NC) to another (CC).

jdrou · 24-01-2003, 01:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Generalisimo
i use Excel XP to open the .csv files and the Notepad for all the others (they are not "connected" to the notepad, just select "Open with..." and then select Notepad).

An easier way to open them without changing file-extension associations is to put a shortcut to wordpad or notepad on the desktop and then drag the file and drop it on the shortcut. I also made Wordpad the default .csv opener and Excel just an additional right-click option since these are pretty much the only .csv files I deal with.

Aregorn · 24-01-2003, 09:45

Quote:

Originally posted by JouniL
I don't have xp, but is there a notepad? If so, you can open the files with that.

Btw. I suggest you look at these pages, there's much (everything?) info how to edit/mod the HoI:

http://editing.hearts-of-iron.com/

I just printed all pages (about 40 or so..), and I'm starting to make 2001-map, just for fun...

Thanks Jounil, jdrou and Gen. (nice new shield Gen. by the way, which one is it?). I went home yesterday and I was easily opening the files you said with the notepad. The fact is that I did not explore these files before, so it was not a problem of my computer. The problem was that I was trying to open the wrong files of course. Now I could happily access the unit’s attributes and nations starting positions, giving a whole new horizon to my HOI possibilities. I do not have to say I am trying to change everything, units speeds, costs, supply consuming, defence capabilities, etc. to try to make war strategy more real, we will see the outcome. Thanks very much for your help again.

Generalisimo · 24-01-2003, 13:30

Well, wait until we have 1.03... the list of changes is very exciting!!

About the shield, is the royal shield of Hungary (magyar), my grandfather was from there.

Aregorn · 24-01-2003, 16:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Generalisimo
Well, wait until we have 1.03... the list of changes is very exciting!!

About the shield, is the royal shield of Hungary (magyar), my grandfather was from there.

Well we have something else somehow in common, my mothers family line was from Austria-Hungary. About 1.03 you are right, but this seems it will not be in the immediate future, so meanwhile I will explore a bit, and I might find something helpful, who knows?

Generalisimo · 24-01-2003, 16:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Aregorn
Well we have something else somehow in common, my mothers family line was from Austria-Hungary. About 1.03 you are right, but this seems it will not be in the immediate future, so meanwhile I will explore a bit, and I might find something helpful, who knows?

well, it looks like we have more in common

I don't think that... the last patch was released the same day that the announcement was made.

And it was delayed just because Strategy First took more time to "add their things" to the patch, the PAN vision was finished before the announcement... but, that was with 1.02... we can only hope that with 1.03 the same happens.

Aregorn · 24-01-2003, 17:21

Ok Gen, check this site:
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch18.htm
There you have a full story of what happened with china during that period, and actually shows that both Chiang and Mao became Allies against Japan. Maybe you can recreate the actual china alliance against Japan. The thing is that the Nationalist were always superior in manpower and forces over the com. but different events help Mao to increase power until 49 to finally win the struggle, creating as a side effect what now is Taiwan.

22-01-2003, 03:40	#1
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	Modifying Communist China (and Nationalist China) well, as i have discused in the bug forum, Communist China is vastly underrated. They do not have any technology and they will never receive from any neighbours (in Bolt Mod, he added events for Nationalist China), so you only depend on your IC to develop some technology. Also, they start with 50 manpower pool, and they get an increase level of... 0.3 that not too much, and even when you conquer the ENTIRE China + Tibet + Manchukuo, you only get 3 (+or-) manpower per month...so they will never be able to build a little army. I posted this in the bug forum, and Vulture has added this to the Bug List (Thanks Vulture ), so maybe we have a solution in 1.03... i hope so In the meantime, or to help Paradox people, i want to modify the manpower of both Communist China (CC) and Nationalist China (NC) to make them more playable. Right now they start with these numbers: CC=50MP NC=5000MP they increasing manpower pool is: CC=0.3MP NC=3.0MP so this is big diference... I decided to make the starting pool of NC 2500, because i doubt they will be able to call to duty all that men, so we have 2500 men in reserve to use in events (suposing the 5000 MP is the total population that can fight in the war). Now we can add events that add volunteers to the CC every year, or we can add more manpower to increasing manpower of the provinces, so the faction that controls most provinces will get more manpower. i think the best is a mix of both my idea is: we have 12 years: 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 so we can add events that add 100 MP to CC every 6 months, so they will receive 2 per year, being 12 years is: 212100=2400MP to CC, is more fair now? and also increase the manpower of provinces... but now, i got a problem, i do not have numbers of this, the info that i get is not precise, so i have to make a lot of guesses, for now, my changes have resulted in: CC: 0.6 p/m NC: 7.8 p/m Sinkiang: 1.3 p/m (that will surelly go to NC ) what do you think? any info will be welcome. i expect your opinion people... __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

23-01-2003, 13:37	#2
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	well, just curious... nobody cares a sh about both Chinas? or nobody knows anything about them?.... just a question... well, speaking seriuously, i have been working on the events to give CC more manpower and they work OK, but now, i must find a way to give them so techs, what do you recommend? 1) the Soviet Union sends "gifts" (techs) 2) suddenly appears in Communist China 3) can you think of another one? what do you think? __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010)** - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

23-01-2003, 15:22	#7
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	it is all in texts files (or ".csv"), so, you only have to find the right one. i can tell you how to change the manpower of countries at the start of the scenario because i remember how to do it, the rest no, because i am at work you have to go to your HoI directory: ..\Paradox Entertainment\Hearts of Iron\scenarios\1936 there you will find a lot of ".inc" files, this files are the configuration of every country in 1936 scenario, you can change everything you want for every country. (the OOB, their resources, the manpower,etc). the files are self explanatory, so i will not make much detail about them ("manpower" what modifies? "oil" ? "rubber"? so, as you can see, is very easy to mod that ). __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

23-01-2003, 15:44	#12
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	well, going back to the CHina's subject... i have found this info: "The predecessor of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), the Red Army, came into being with the Nanchang Uprising on 1 August 1927. On the basis of Mao Zedong's theory of 'people's war', this revolutionary army was to have both a political and social role. These roles consisted of doing propaganda among the masses, organizing the masses, arming the masses, helping them to establish revolutionary political power and setting up Party organizations. While doing this, the Party at all times was to maintain control over the army. The fact that most Chinese political leaders (Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Zhu De, Ye Jianying, Lin Biao) had military carreers reflects this dual role of the PLA. The participation of the political elite in military affairs also meant that there was little emphasis on formal training of officers. In the PLA, being 'red' was always considered better than being 'expert'. The political character of the PLA also contributed to the formation of a mystique of the army as a disciplined, politically conscious force that was closely engaged with the task of rebuilding the nation. Traditionally, the military had a very low social status in China, aside from a folklore built around romantic soldiers and military heroes of virtue. "Good iron is not made into nails, a good man does not become a soldier", as the popular saying goes. This image changed dramatically during the revolutionary war period; joining the PLA became an aspiration for many young people, in particular for those of worker or peasant background. Aside from patriotic motives, joining the PLA almost automatically led to acceptance by the Party, and this in turn opened various career prospects. The army enabled young people to acquire skills that were useful in civilian life; demobilized soldiers were honored in their villages and, very important, had good access to the local bureaucracy. Many became cadres themselves, thereby providing status for their families. Others played a major role in national politics, in particular after 1969, when the PLA was called in to restore order after the Cultural Revolution had resulted in total chaos. As a fighting force, the PLA has often been able to accomplish astonishing military feats in the face of adversity. Despite often inadquate armaments, the Army succeeded in defeating superior Nationalist forces during the civil war of 1946-1949, paving the way for the founding of the PRC. Although undereducated and underbudgeted, the PLA applied guerrilla tactics, emphasizing flexibility and a close integration with the people. Constant ideological training prepared the soldiers for hardship and sacrifice for the revolutionary cause." well, as you can see, Mao indeed beat the nationalists... but i need more facts about that... __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

23-01-2003, 16:00	#14
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	yes, i think it will be better to add with events just more supplies and manpower. BUT, if they do not get some techs for putting their organization better than the nationalists (maybe 5 or 10 points, nothing more), they will never win a battle... so, i do not have the game, but maybe some early land doctrines could make the things better for the commies... about the creation of armies, no, you cannot create one with an event. BUT you can defect an army from one country (NC) to another (CC). __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

23-01-2003, 14:36	#3
Aregorn HSR Lead Scripter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zurich Posts: 582	The thing is Gen. that even though china was not strongly united, the nationalists did hold some sort of unification by the time the Japs arrived, being able to generate an opposition against them, and by that at least stop them. Initially in HOI usually Japan was annexing china, but Bolt did fix the issue there. If you want stronger communist china, it will make a whole change in history and a quite complicated situation on the political outcome in Asia. Might be then that against history the Japs would finally annex china, because a strongly divided one is still there. I guess things in HOI are made for the Nationalists to be the strongest to simulate the real outcome, you may change things with a big power intervention, and if the communists take over the nationalist with some help, increasing the manpower for them would be fine with events (later on), if they can crash the nationalists. In a scenario like this, it would be nice a soviet intervention by scientific research (not manpower or military aid, as it would have shocked the whole bunch of enemies of the communist ideas) and you know the Soviet were kept under the microscope at that time, and as someone said, the Nazis might have become the good guys after all. Anyhow I never played as china so far, and I do not really know how do things develop during the game for them, apart from that now the nationalist do give a fight to the Japs, thanks to Bolt, simulating more the real outcome.

23-01-2003, 14:55	#4
JouniL First Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 240	I don't much about Chinas (and don't care much either ), but it sound's ok. One (I think it's most realistic, or maybe not...) tech event could be that some of the NC's scientist would defect to commies, but problem is that NC don't have much tech either... And maybe some kind of propaganda event's where some NC's troops in commies neibhor? provinces would defect to Commies, but I don't now how to do that...

23-01-2003, 15:12	#6
Aregorn HSR Lead Scripter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zurich Posts: 582	By the way Gen, how do you change the manpower of a nation? Thanks to you the looks of my HOI had increased 1000%. If you remember you taught me how to change the flags. These nice results made me brave enough to explore within this GFX folder further (I think that’s the way it was called, maybe something similar) and I could add the pictures I liked for some leaders (Guderians in the German army was terrible, now is perfect). Did you realise how careless the images of some leaders were added to fit the size of the game??? Instead of cropping them to make them at the correct size for the game, which would have taken no more than an hour for all of them, they just redefined the measures in 5 minutes without caring for the proportions, making little aliens. If they did not care spending extra minutes for that (yes extra minutes not extra hours or days), how can we expect a reasonable AI? Anyhow, continuing, I could also paint my own uniforms for the interphase, honestly an orange infantry picture did not resemble much a Wehrmacht uniform. I am about to change the colours of the infantry sprites in the map as well (to better simulate the original uniforms) but that will be a lot more time consuming, so it will be slower, because there are so many pictures to fix just for one unit and one action. But then it will be nice if I can explore in this area of the events as well. My German army has far too much manpower. I would like to make it more like Italy. Also I would like to change the costs of tanks, and maybe adjust some unit attributes (like attack-defence, etc) but then I guess I do not have the programme to open and modify this files? or am I not seeing something obvious? Thanks Gen.

23-01-2003, 15:54	#13
JouniL First Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 240	This gives me more reasons to believe that there should be event which would make some NC soldiers to defect to Commies, or even better, event what would make more troops to Commies as their war proceeds. But I think you can't make troops with events? They could also get much supplies by events because of their proganda (peasant etc. would give them food). So my main point is, that they need more troops, not more techs, because I don't think Commies had better techs than Nationalist. I'll read about their history on weekend, if I can find more about PLA and their war.

24-01-2003, 13:30	#17
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	Well, wait until we have 1.03... the list of changes is very exciting!! About the shield, is the royal shield of Hungary (magyar), my grandfather was from there. __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

24-01-2003, 17:21	#20
Aregorn HSR Lead Scripter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Zurich Posts: 582	Ok Gen, check this site: http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch18.htm There you have a full story of what happened with china during that period, and actually shows that both Chiang and Mao became Allies against Japan. Maybe you can recreate the actual china alliance against Japan. The thing is that the Nationalist were always superior in manpower and forces over the com. but different events help Mao to increase power until 49 to finally win the struggle, creating as a side effect what now is Taiwan.