Elections and hereditary monarchs for P-L Commonwealth
 

There is a problem with Poland-Lithuania. Historically all kings after 1573 were elective. During the interregnum, government was led was interrex – the current primate.

However, in EU2 we have an event “The Pact Conventa and the Henrykian Articles”. It happens when Poland has centralization lower than 7. I understand that this event triggers the elective kings. But what if Poland is highly centralized? Why we have elective, non-hereditary monarch while Poland would probably remain a hereditary monarchy???

Historically, the Vasa dynasty would most likely be installed anyway becausesince they were descendants of Polish-Lithuanian Jagiellons (Zygmunt III was a grandson of Zygmunt I Stary). Before Zygmunt throne would be most likely held by last Jagiellon, Queen Anna, who in fact was elected in 1575 as King of Poland (Stefan Batory was chosen as a husband for Anna!).

So, I propose this solution:
Event “The Pact Conventa and the Henrykian Articles” shall in addition wake elective kings and sleep hereditary kings of Poland. We also have to modify leaders file (add kings and Jan Sobieski as general).

Monarch list for hereditary kings. Stats little better because kings are not restricted by pacta conventa.

a) Anna Jagiello (1572 – 1583 – until Zygmunt reaches maturity)
Dip: 7
Adm: 6
Mil: 3

b) Zygmunt III (1583 - 1632)
Dip: 6
Adm: 5
Mil: 6

c) Władysław IV (1632 – 1648)
Dip: 7
Adm: 7
Mil: 9

d) Jan Kazimierz (1648 – 1672 why should he abdicate now??)
Dip: 6
Adm: 3
Mil: 6 (I do not know, we he has so poor MIL in AGCEEP. He was a poor administrator and his reign was disastrous, but he was also a skilled commander and military reformer)

Jan Kazimierz’s only son (Jan Zygmunt) died in infancy. Thus the Polish branch of Vasa dynasty became extinct. However, Jan Kazimierz considered French princes of Bourbon-Conde as his successors. Louis XIV of France was eager to send ambitious Louis de Conde abroad and supported JK. This plans were aborted because of internal opposition in Poland. But Poland is hereditary, so…

e)Ludwik I (Louis the Grand Conde – 1672 - 1686)
Dip: 7
Adm: 7
Mil: 9

f) Henryk I (1686 - 1709)
Dip: 6
Adm: 6
Mil: 5

g) Ludwik II (1709-1710)
Dip: 5
Adm: 4
Mil: 5

h) Ludwik Henryk I (1710-1750)
Dip: 5
Adm: 7
Mil: 5

i) Ludwik Józef I (1740 - 1818)
Dip: 6
Adm: 5
Mil: 7

j) Ludwik Henryk II
Dip: 5
Adm: 3
Mil: 4



3. Polish free elections


Now let’s see the elective kings. As I noticed above, during the interregnum, government was led by the current primate.
There were always plenty of candidates during each election. I propose making elections similar to American presidential election. Each candidate had different program and was supported by different powers. Election of each kings should give changes in DP, cash and relations according to each ruler or candidate’s plans or achievements. Surely, some choices would make Poland a vassal.

Below you see interreges for each election and historical candidates. Candidates statistics and effects are a matter for debate.

I wait for suggestions.


Interrex: Aleksy Uchanski (July 1572 – May 1573)
Dip: 7 (Stats show, how PL Commonwealth fared during the interregnum)
Adm: 6
Mil: 3

Election of 1573
Candidates:
a) Henryk Walezy
b) Ernest Habsburg

Interrex: Aleksy Uchanski (June 1574 – december 1575)
Dip: 7
Adm: 6
Mil: 3

Election of 1574
Candidates:
a) Stefan I Batory
b) Maksymilian I Habsburg
c) Alfons I Nawarski (Alphonse of Navarra)
d) Teodor I (Feodor of Russia)

Interrex: Stanislaw Karnkowski (December 1586 – August 1587)
Dip: 8
Adm: 4
Mil: 5

Election of 1587
Candidates:
a) Zygmunt III
b) Maksymilian II Habsburg
c) Jan II Zamoyski (only if Zborowski was not executed, we also have to do something with the numeration of Jans)

Election of 1605 (if Zamoyski was chosen)
Candidates:
a) Zygmunt III
b) Tomasz I Zamoyski (Jan Zamoyski’s son)

Interrex: Jan Wezyk (April 1632 – November 1632)
Dip: 6
Adm: 6
Mil: 2

Election of 1632
Candidates:
a) Wladyslaw IV
b) Jan Kazimierz

Interrex: 1648: Maciej Lubienski (May – November 1648), but Chancellor Jerzy Ossolinski was truly in charge.
Dip: 5
Adm: 3
Mil: 1

Election of 1648
Candidates:
a) Jan Kazimierz
b) Karol Ferdynand (youngest son of Zygmunt III)


Interrex: Mikołaj Prazmowski (September 1668 - 1669)
Dip: 6
Adm: 3
Mil: 3

Election of 1669
Candidates:
a) Michal Korybut
b) Karol (Charles de Longeuville)
c) Krystyna (Kristina of Sweden)

Interrex: Kazimierz Florian Czartoryski (November 1673 – May 1674)
Dip: 4
Adm: 3
Mil: 6

Election of 1674
Candidates:
a) Jan Sobieski
b) Ludwik I (Louis the Grand Conde)
c) Filip I (Philipp of Neuburg)
d) Karol Lotarynski (Charles of Lorraine)

Interrex Michał Stefan Radziejowski (June 1696 – June 1697)
Dip: 4
Adm: 2
Mil: 2

Election of 1697
Candidates:
a) August II Sas
b) Ludwik de
c) Jakub Sobieski

Interrex Teodor Potocki (February – October 1733)
Dip: 2
Adm: 2
Mil: 1

Election of 1733
Candidates:
a) Stanisław Leszczynski (plus Polish succession chain)
b) August III Sas

(Jakub Sobieski had no son. So fellow named Jan IV Sobieski is pure fantasy.)

Interrex: Władysław II Aleksander Łubieński (1763-1764)
Dip: 5
Adm: 4
Mil: 3

Election of 1764
Candidates:
a) Stanisław August Poniatowski
b) Adam Kazimierz Czartoryski

Since 1798
Fryderyk August (Friedrich August III of Saxony. Heir to Polish throne according to the Constitution of Third May)

wasnt Ivan the IV from Russia a candidate too??

Great list, and great job! I only wonder why monarch's military points is what decreases most; I'd say command and morale were much less affected by interregnum than administration and diplomacy. Maybe decrease the two instead? (Especially dip; who would sign pacts with a temporary worker anyway?)

Also, if an unhistorical monarch is elected, shouldn't the next election be triggered at his deathdate too?

Good job, Yarovit!

It is too hard to make proper elections events unfortunately, because of all these different dates of kings’ reign, life, numbers etc: if one “unhistorical” monarch dies in time, the new election events should be made etc… But we can try at last. :) For example, to make the lives of unhistorical candidates “shorter” or “longer”. Also, you forgot many historical candidates (may be you just made it special to leave things easier to model?):
1573: Feodor and Ivan IV, Johan III Vasa, Prince Alfonso II d’Este of Modena-Ferrara-Reggio, Burgrave Wilhelm of Rozmberg, Prince Henryk XI of Legnica, two Polish nobles (Jan Kostka and Wawrzyniec Slupski)
1575: Ernst and Ferdinand II Habsburgs, Feodor and Ivan IV, Johan III Vasa, Alfonso II d’Este, Wilhelm of Rozmberg, two Polish nobles (Jan Kostka and Andrzej Teczynski this time); and I did not hear anything about Alphonse of Navarra – where did you find this one?
1587: Feodor of Muscovy; Ernst, Mathias and Ferdinand II Habsburgs
1632: Gustav II Adolf of Sweden; also I believe Jan Kazimierz was not a candidate at this elections at all
1669: Duke Charles V Leopold of Lorrain, Prince Ludwig II de Condé (the Great Condé), Henri Julius de Condé d'Enghien, Tsar Aleksey Mikhaylovich (and Princes Aleksey and Feodor Alekseyeviches), Count Palatine Philipp Wilhelm of Neuburg, Aadil Girej of Crimea, Polish candidates: Dymitr Wisniowiecki, Aleksander Janusz Ostrogski-Zaslawski, Aleksander Polanowski
1674: Prince Jorgen Oldenborg of Denmark, Prince Michal Apaffy of Transylvania
1697: Prince Françoise Ludwig de Bourbon of Conti, Count Palatine Karl Philip of Neuburg, Duke Leopold Ludwig of Lorrain, Prince Ludwig of Baden, Elector Maximilian II Emanuel of Bavaria, Prince Livio of Odeschalch
1733: Infant D. Emanuel of Portugal
1764: Michal Kazimierz Oginski, Jan Klemens Branicki, Elector Friedrich Christian of Saxony

Yes he was. But it seemed immposible for this Mongol to be elected. Nobles of Poland-Lithuania were well informed on how he behaved in home.
Besides, next election is just 2 years later. And his son Feodor was a serious candidate.

Actually, Commonwealth suffered many military losses during the interregnums. Especially the interregnum of 1648 was disastrous (Khmielnitsky's Uprising). But also the interregnums of 1574/5 amd 1632 ended in major military defeats.

On the other hand, many foreign rules tried to improve relations with PLC in hope for election. And PLC itself was usually extremely active at that time looking for suitable candidate.
During the interregnums administration was faring suprisingly well. Mostly because of special confederacies of the nobility known as the "Hoods" (Kaptury).

But we can do it.

Besides, we may make elections on real dates. Some guys might lived longer or shorter if they were kings.
:p

This guy was proposed by Henry III of France (Henryk Walezy :) ) as his viceroy in PLC.

Well, yeah. But it requires really colossal work. I would be pleased to help if you could try to code some events for the start. I think we can leave at last four choices for every election.

Hmm, seems I missed this. Also may be the interrexes should be marked as “Aleksy Uchanski (Interrex)” similar to the Scottish regents in AGCEEP? Same with Alphonse of Navarra as “Alfons Nawarski (Regent)”.

I think it's obvious.

And what then? Sunni Poland?
:rofl:

Why not? :D Shah of Poland sound kinda cool :rofl:

It is of course the most unpromising candidate in the era of Sarmatism. :)

I agree with yarovit that this is not really necessary, but if we did it we should use the English word (interregnum) rather than the Polish. It's not a proper noun, after all.

That's by far the easiest approach, and I think it's acceptable. The alternative would be to sleep the next historical interregnum and election, and awaken alternate versions whose dates correspond with the proper monarch death date. If the ahistorical monarch lives well beyond the next election, then just skip that interregnum/election and go to the one after it.

But as I said, just ahistorically changing the lifespan of the ahistorical monarch is a reasonable alternative.
I think adding more candidates sounds great, but not at the expense of making things much more difficult to model. In other words, 4 max candidates per election. Just pick the four most realistic candidates of the election. If there weren't 4 candidates who realistically had a 4% chance of getting elected that time, though, then having less than 4 is fine.

The event choice should make it clear that this happens - likewise for any other effects which will manifest as events for other nations.

It is Latin word really. I believe it is used in English often too (at last my Oxford dictionary has it) for the person which executed the role of regent during interregnums.

It is a great solution but this would require a hell of event scripting. If this would be ever done of course the elections stuff would look much more historical and logical.

Fair enough, but interregnum is in far more common usage. Google gives 1,240,000 hits for interregnum and 45,100 for interrex.

Agreed. We should start with the simple solution, and the alternate versions for alternate monarchs can be potentially added down the line.